Almina Samtonova Interview with Francis Ortiz

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HIS-196H – COVID19 & BLM 

Interviewer: Almina Samtonova 

Interviewee: Francis Ortiz 

Date: November 4, 2024 

Duration: 01:47:14 

Interview Transcription 

ALMINA So just introduce yourself, um say where you came from 

FRANCIS Well my name is Fran, and I am a, um, 46 and I have been working in the hospital for about seventeen years. 

ALMINA Oh wow 

FRANCIS I have been there for about seventeen years 

ALMINA The same one? 

FRANCIS Same hospital, same position. Unit associate, um and yea it’s uh it’s been a learning experience there 

ALMINA I’m sure it has. A lot of growing and changing. 

FRANCIS yes, yes 

ALMINA Lots of experiences. What brought you into this field? 

FRANCIS Uhhh I’ve been working since I was fourteen, so ever since I was…I had cousins that worked in offices and stuff and I kinda just like picked it up, you know, do it in the summer time. And then um I went to school, I went to…when I went to college, I was actually going for uh childhood education. Early childhood education. And um then we… had a…uh… tragedy in the family. And I had to quit school and um, just start working. So it happened at nineteen. And at nineteen, I just started you know working. I started in the bank and then, um, I ended up in a doctor’s office. And i worked with really great doctors. And um, I thought about nursing and so I was like, okay you know. I know I need a better schedule and maybe getting into the hospital would be, you know, a set schedule and I could go back to school and, and go from there and…that’s what I did. I, I got into the hospital and started as a unit associate, which is a secretary, a clerk on the floor. Um, I work for the telemetry unit where they do open heart surgeries, patients that have open heart come there and um, cath lab patients and so I was in a, in a totally different world because the hospital is a totally different world. Doesn’t matter where you worked before that, but it’s a, it’s it’s it’s, it’s it’s own world. Um 

ALMINA I’m sure 

FRANCIS I had great coworkers and um, it was, it was a good experience, you know. And you learn a lot of different cultures. I never knew about, um, so many different cultures. So many different foods. Like you learn, you meet so many different people. I never knew about Filipino’s, I never worked with a Filipino before. And all of a sudden, I’m in the hospital

and all I’m eating is Filipino food 

ALMINA Oh everyone? 

FRANCIS Yea!! *laughs* on my unit at least, a lot of Filipinos and I, again, never worked with anyone Filipino. So for me this was all so different and um all new, and um. Back then we used to transcribe orders. So we used to like, everything that the doctor’s wrote with their doctor chicken scratch, we would put it into the system, the computer system. So, um, it was a lot of work back then. It was a lot of work. It’s changed throughout the years. But back then it was a lot of work and um, we had to, you know, learn about all medications and it, it. But at the same time, it kind of proved, it kinda showed me … ehhh, I don’t think I like this field *laughs* I don’t think I wanted nursing and then I was like ehhh, I don’t think I wanna go into nursing. I didn’t really, uh, I saw, I saw… the good and the hard maybe. And I said ugh, I don’t think this is for me. And so I just, you know, I took a couple of um classes and did night classes and stuff. But I did not get into nursing, and like I said, I’m still there 

ALMINA Yea, still the same field. And I…I think if I was in your position, the same boat as you, I think the, negativity and the struggles of being a nurse would definitely overpower, like, the benefits 

FRANICS *laughs* 

ALMINA It’s a very physical job first of all, mental job. It’s like something that comes home with you 

FRANCIS yea, yea 

ALMINA You definitely would’ve been able to do it. But, I’m glad you like this. What was, um, when you had to quit school, was it … you went straight into the workforce because you had to provide for yourself or any siblings? 

FRANCIS I have one sibling … 

[coughing break] 

So I, um, I was … yea I had one sibling and my parents. And at that time, when everything happened, my, my um…my mom couldn’t work. Um, so i ended up having to go to work. You know. And uh, it was just me working, I had a younger brother who was a couple years younger than me. And so, it kind of pushed me. You know. But then again, I’ve always, I’ve always worked. My mom always, you know, my mom was the, the hard worker of the house. And so i’ve always worked, like in the summertime and even when I was young, you know. I, I, I, I always worked. So to me it wasn’t anything new, it wasn’t anything that was hard because um, at the time I was, I, I had to withdraw from my classes. It was uh, it was a little rough cuz I knew I couldn’t, I couldn’t mentally … do the classes. I don’t know if that makes sense. I couldn’t, I knew

I was not able, um, to get through my classes. 

ALMINA for sure 

FRANCIS So I knew I had to withdraw. I had, I had…my brother passed away. It ended up, my, my second brother, my middle brother, ended up passing away. That was like tragic in our family obviously, you know. It was five of us and then all of a sudden, it was four of us. and … and it was just something that we, we…it was out of the blue. We just had to kind of like roll with the punches and keep going. So me leaving, you know, having, I, I went back to school after that and, and sitting there and I was like, yea I, I c- … I couldn’t. I couldn’t. So I ended up quitting school and uh, just start working. And again, it wasn’t anything out of the norm for me cuz I always worked even when I was in school, I would work part time, you know after school and stuff, so it wasn’t anything, I just kinda felt like, okay now I’m just doing it full time. Monday through Friday. You know 

ALMINA Yea, different priority 

FRANCIS Right, right. The priorities definitely changed and, it… it didn’t feel like a burden either. It didn’t feel like, ‘oh my god I have to leave school and I have to help my family’, it wasn’t like that. I knew it was just like my, it was my little piece of, of, of the puzzle that I just, I just had to do, you know 

ALMINA It was what you needed at the time 

FRANCIS Right, right. So mhm 

ALMINA I have two questions. One is very quick, it was just, what was the time frame between when you left school and when you went back. And after I want you to go into, or if you would like, um…cuz you mentioned how you were never surrounded by a lot of Filipino’s or maybe different cultures, I don’t know if it was strictly Filipino’s or other cultures in general so I would love to know, um… where you grew up, what the demographic was, you know just your own world, in childhood, teenage years 

FRANCIS I grew up in Paterson 

ALMINA Oh right here!! 

FRANCIS Right here in Paterson. I grew up in Paterson. Umm…and like I said, I had my mom my dad, and I had two younger brothers. We were a year apart. We were very close. We um…we were brought up in a Christian Pentecostal household from the very beginning so… 

ALMINA What’s pentecostal you said?

FRANICS Christian Pentecostal yea. The part, yea, it’s from the Christian faith. Um, the pentecostals yea. It’s a pentecostal religion. So um, back then, you know I didn’t … It was very, it was rough. It was a little hard. I used to wear skirts and you know, it was just a little, you know, uh, rough! Or hard, or strong. But it was something that, it was something that really taught us how to have faith and hope. And um, like i said, we, we had the perfect family. What’s a perfect family when you have each other, you know. It didn’t matter what we didn’t have or it didn’t matter, um, vacations. That wasn’t a Priority. That we had eachother, it was all that we needed and that was our perfect family. We always lived in Paterson. And I went to Eastside High School, and that was a little rough *laughs* after high school, um, I wanted to go to college and I ended up going to Bergen Community College. And um, and yea. That was it. Was that short? *laughs* 

ALMINA It was great. Did you ever wish that you left Paterson? Cuz I know you grew up there, you still work in the same area. Cuz I’m from Central Jersey, I’m currently in 

Manhattan but from Central Jersey. Do you ever wish you branched out at any time in your life? 

FRANICS I did, we did. And even when we were young, you know, my mom’s like ‘oh we should move and we should move here’. I remember going from places and she would look into Pennsylvania and um, and we always wanted to go but I guess there always some kind of fear for my parents to, to leave. My grandparents, all my family lived in Paterson. Um, and then after everything happened, it was just like, we didn’t want to go anywhere. You Know. it was just like, okay, you know we’re here. My brother passed when I was 19 so once he passed away it was just like, okay, we won’t be leaving anywhere. You know my mom’s like ‘I can’t leave him here’. You know, in her, in her mind she’s like, she felt like she was leaving him. So, at, moving was out of the question. And then we got to a place where we were like, yea you know that’s right…we don’t want to leave. This is where we grew up and this is where, you know, we were raised. And we ended up moving, we ended up moving. My parents actually ended up getting divorced, after that it was a little too much … I guess too much strain on their marriage. after 25 years they ended up getting divorced. So at 25 years I felt like a little kid…with your parents getting divorced. I was like ‘oh my god’, like I really felt like I was five years old and it was just like … it was so traumatizing but it was something I guess you know, we we had to go through it and it ended up being my mom and myself because my younger brother ended up getting married. And And and moving out so it ended up being my mother myself and and that was something that we had to kind of just like, again go with the punches and and we moved a couple of times until finally we got a house outside of Paterson but it was still close to Paterson 

ALMINA yea still same proximity 

FRANCIS Right, right. like we thought about going a little further but it was like mmm… you know it just never really just clicked. And when we came here, we actually live in Hamilton, and when it clicked, when we came here, and saw the house, it was kinda just, this is

where we’re supposed to be. It was it. Not far enough, but just enough! You know. ALMINA still a little change 

FRANCIS right, right. And if we…and we’re constantly, I mean I go through Paterson for work. And you know, we still kinda like just do food shopping in the Spanish stores and you know, do different things there. Because you know, again, it’s a part of our, I would say culture because that’s where everything that we grew up with is still there. All the Spanish shops and the churches and eveyrhting we did, everything is still there. So we kinda just always get … we always go back and … it’s just going back home. You know. It just feels like home 

ALMINA Would you say you’re closest with your mother out of everyone? FRANCIS Oh yea 

ALMINA I always actually think about this…divorce happening when you’re a child versus when you’re an adult because obviously when you’re an adult, your brains a little bit developed so you have more room to make more conclusive thoughts. Whereas as a child, you’re still dependent on them and you kinda do whatever they say and you don’t necessarily have a perception on love, family yet. So do you… I don’t know how to frame the question… but like, what was your experience like as a 25 year old now, dealing with that , plus do you think it like changed you in a way and your i guess your mindset? Or perception on life, love, marriage… 

FRANCIS Yes so like I said at 25, I felt like a little kid. And I would tell her, ‘why did you wait so long’ you know ‘why didn’t you just get divorced when you guys … when I was little’ .. you know… cuz I knew there was like issues but my parents, I, I, I said my parents were definitely chosen to be my parents, you know. They were the perfect parents for me. And, um, when they decided to, to, to do this…it was… I knew it was because of my brother’s passing and so I said, ‘ why didn’t you guys do this earlier where you couldv’e gotten remarried’ and my dad could’ve, you know, also could have gotten remarried and had other kids and she’s like ‘well we didn’t wanna do that to you guys. We wanted you … we wanted the best for the three of you and we didn’t wanna give you stepparents. Um and, and god forbid something would’ve happened you know, with either or. And so this is why we stayed together but now we’re at a place where I think you guys are adult enough to understand that we have drifted apart and you know, we’re gonna follow our own paths’. And then, and then it kinda clicked. It took a little time but then it finally clicked and I was like, oh wow. You know, they did this for us, they, they really put their selfishness aside. They put everything to the side… just for us. Their love was just unconditional, you know, that they could say ‘well I’m gonna put my life on hold for twenty five years’. They didn’t say twenty five years but you know, it took that long. But that they would put everything on hold, their future on hold, because they wanted to make sure we were okay.

ALMINA Yea.. 

FRANCIS So yes it did change and I say, every … uhh every experience kinda teaches you something in life and I definitely like see, I remember seeing little things from like my family members and the things that they went through with their spouses and boyfriends and girlfriends and children and, I said ‘wow I don’t ever wanna go 

through this’ or I’m not gonna put myself in this position or I’m not gonna, when I see this coming my way, I’m gonna spot it and I don’t wanna go down that path. You know so I definitely learned from, from past experiences. Not just my parents but my family members and it has definitely changed my perception on marriage and now I’m in a place where I say, I-I-I- I feel like I’m still not equipped *laughs* to make the right decision on choosing the right person. So I say, ‘God it’s in your hands and whenever you decide to send me the right person, I’m really just gonna trust’ because as far as I’m concerned, I feel like I’m just gonna make a huge mistake and pick the wrong person and go down the wrong path. So I-I-I I kinda just give it to God. God whenever you decide, even if I’m 80 years old, you know, if it’s not meant for me now, just don’t let it happen. 

ALMINA Never too late 

FRANICS I am fine, I am okay with being alone. I’m a single mom. It’s rough it’s hard but as long as I have God’s help, I can do it. You know, and I don’t want … I kinda feel like I don’t want anything that is not supposed to be next to me or that’s going to hinder my, my relationship with my daughter or take away from my relationship with my daughter or my being a good mother to her, you know. I don’t want anything to come between that, before that, so I’m like ‘God I just, whenever you decide to put a good man next to me, I’ll be more than happy to’…but until then, it’s all…I’m on full mom mode. 

ALMINA Yea of course. You have your priorities and also, I think it’s best when you don’t actively search for it. Cuz like 

FRANCIS Yes 

ALMINA You said you trust God so whenever it comes it’ll just align perfectly. Do you mind me asking how old your daughter is? 

FRANCIS She’s ele- she just turned 12 last month. 

ALMINA Aww, you only have one kid? 

FRANCIS One daughter, she’s more than enough *laughs* 

ALMINA and how … explain to me like, um… the early stages of when you found out you were

Pregnant and rasing a child uhhh… cuz that’s something I really want. I’m only 22 but I’m like…ugh…a part of me is like, I’m really ready for the mom life to be honest 

*both laugh* 

FRANCIS Ohhh 

ALMINA Maybe not then! 

FRANCIS Maybe not, I always say, be careful what you wish for. Um, but I believe in everything in do time. Right, like I told you, at nineteen I kinda stepped away from my faith a little bit and when my brother passed away at nineteen, so from nineteen all the way til maybe like my early 30s, I, you know, went out, used to hangout, I was engaged then I was unengaged and um, I did the whole clubbing scene, and, and you know, my friends, my girlfriends, we’d go out on vacations, and it was great! I had a great time and um, as I was approaching my 30s, I was like okay…something’s getting old. It’s getting, it’s getting tiring, like I’m…this is boring already. I’m really, I need to, something needs to change. And so um… I started kinda like coming back to my faith and just kinda like putting God in front of things. But still, things were a little rough. And so I ended up… I was 33 when I got pregnant. So I actually got pregnant a little later in life, It wasn’t what I was planning, it it just happened and it took me by total surprise 

ALMINA I’m sure, that’s a big change 

FRANCIS It was definitely a big shocker for me because … cuz I had too many health issues, doctors told me I wouldn’t, I have endometriosis, so they told me I would never you know, have a kid or if I did, I’d have to…it’d be really hard, I’d have to go on medications and all this other stuff and I was on medications for my endometriosis so when I ended up getting pregnant, I was like, oh my god…like, you know *scoffs* Looord what are you doing?? A few weeks before I was like, god you know, if I’m just, I have two amazing nephews, and I said, God if you want my, if you just want me to be an auntie, like I am more than happy. Just stay..being the best auntie I can possibly be to my nephews. And I was okay with it, I was just, I was in a place where I was okay with not having a kid. Then, all of a sudden I got pregnant and I was like, Oh lord you’re shifting my life and things just started, just felt like … okay … things are definitely going to change like this , this is totally shifting, I felt the shift. And I, as I went through my first couple of months, I was just like so unsure of everything. But I knew that…that, it was just kinda like my time. I didn’t know how it was going to happen like I don’t know how things were going to workout but I knew it was my time to- to- to have my baby. And you know, I strongly believe , you know, every child is a blessing so I was just like, wow, like I am..I’m, I’m you know, for so long I didn’t think I would have one and then now I’m blessed to have a baby. And then I found out it was a girl. And when I found out it was a girl, my mom went to all my ultrasounds with me and they told us that she was a girl, I was like *gasps* I think the first thing I said, ‘God what did I do that you wanted

to give me a girl’ *laughs* cuz I’m like oh my gooood, ‘what am I going to do with a girl?? Like i know my two nephews and girls are such headaches!!’ 

ALMINA Just wait until she hits her teenage years. 

FRANCIS I was like, God what did I do so wrong that you’re punishing me … but then I was like, okay, you know I just gotta go. So I remember going to one of my last ultrasounds and them telling me, ‘oh she’s going to be so beautiful’. And the doctor just looked at me, I was a high risk and he looked at me, he was like ‘you know, she has piano fingers on her’, on the ultrasound they did, ‘she has piano fingers’. And I looked at him , and he goes, ‘that means she’s going to be more beautiful than you’. And I was like that’s okay! Not a problem with my kid being more cuter than me you know *laughs* that’s totally fine and he was just like, she’s gonna … she… I guess in her ultrasound, her pinky’s were up. My daughter plays the piano now. So she’s, you know, so from the beginning, I just knew it was definitely a blessing in disguise. You know, it was rough, it was definitely rough, cuz from the beginning, I was a single mom. And i was okay with that, you know, cuz with the experience I went through with my parents, I said I don’t wanna be in a relationship where I feel like I have to be in it because of my child, you know, and if I start like that then it’s…, I just don’t wanna be living in a, in a lie. You know. So from the beginning, I was a single mom and I had the support of my parents and my family and my brother, and, and all my family. And um, like I said, like it was rough but at the same time I kinda like, everything came with a blessing. Like I kinda saw the rainbow and 

everything, I kinda saw, you know, the ray of…the ray of sunlight in it. You know I kinda was able to see the good in everything that happened day by day. And um yea, it’s been…she just turned 12 and my daughter is now taller than me and bigger than me *laughs*. Her dad is 6’4, I’m only 5 feet. So she is definitely a big girl, she’s gonna be tall and she’s gonna be, you know, like her dad, which is fine. I said that’s no problem I don’t have to pull up a stool and get things from the cupboard so that’s fine , I’m okay with it. I’m not in denial anymore. But she’s a great kid she loves school and she wants to be a teacher and she’s between teacher, and…and, not teacher. She wanted to be a, she wants to be a doctor and she wants to, she originally wanted to be an engineer. And so I … I’m like engineer, doctor… doctor’s a lot of school years…but uh she’s looking at pediatrician and I’m like, whatever you wanna do, whatever makes you happy, whatever, you know, we’ve talked about schooling and how long it takes and she’s like , ‘no mom it’s okay. This is what I wanna do’. Cuz I remember at two years old, she went to the doctors with my mom to a…a spine doctor and she came out of her, her face and kinda just asked her doctor, ‘is that an x-ray of the spine?’ and the doctor’s like, ‘yea it is’. And she’s like, ‘hmmm okay’. So she asked her a couple of things and she tells me, ‘I wanna be a spine doctor but for babies’. SO that’s how she was able to explain an orthopedic for kids. So I’m like, ‘oh wow’. So she’s been repeating this for about, since she was 2 years old. For about eight years. And about two years ago, she saw a, they brought, they brought a prosthetics engineer to the school. That’s where she got the engineering in there, she’s like…’I want, I’m thinking of changing from doctor to prosthetics engineer’ and , but she keeps going back to the doctor. So I’m like, you know, just, just do what you

want, do what makes you happy, and do what God wants you to do, you know. Cuz if you do , if you stay in the path where you’re supposed to be, everythings gonna go right 

ALMINA for sure yea 

FRANCIS and so that’s where we are 

ALMINA that would be cool if she found like a, a really cool intersect between the two. She could apply engineering, but she sounds very like, clearly she gets really inspired very easily 

FRANCIS Yes she does *laughs* 

ALMINA so she’s very smart 

FRANCIS she does, and she’s a smart kid. She’s one of those if she sees things and she totally gets it. And I’m like woow. And she’s like, ‘mom did you get that?’..and I’m like, ‘no can you explain it to me’. And she’ll explain it and I’m like ‘wow I didn’t know you got that. I didn’t know you could understand this’. And she’s like ‘oh yea’. 

ALMINA Wow. So what do you think are the biggest, maybe not the biggest, but just any takeaways you have from her, like what are things you learned through her, maybe about you or about your guys life together? Cuz I’m sure as a mother, you kinda see life through her also because you’re on ultimate protector mode 24/7 

FRANCIS Yea, she’s um…she inspires me. She inspires me to be better, to do better. She keeps me on my toes. I want the best for her and i want to be the best for her you know, I I don’t want to just because you know, it’s not so much what you say, it’s what you do. So it’s not so much what I tell her to do, it’s what she sees in me. So there’s been times that I have had to kind of like push myself. I’ve always been quiet, I’ve always been shy, I’ve always been to myself, you know, I I am out of place where I am like I’m okay. I don’t need a hundred friends like before, um you know, Friendships come and go. Best friends that I thought would be my best friends for life , I don’t see them anymore. Things evolve you know. And people change. And I’m perfectly fine with that. I’m in a place where I’m okay, without friends and I have, you know, I tell Bianca I have acquaintances you know. And I have my co-workers and sometimes we go out to eat And we spend time at work. But I’m okay with not having, thinking I need to have like these friends and And do what Society tells you to do And the culture tells you to do, To go out and do this and do that and no, I’m okay where I am. I’m perfectly content with where God has me with my daughter, and I push myself. And kind of just like, Not just, Tell her this is, this is what you should do. But I want her to say ‘hey Mom did that, mom is doing that, mom changed’. Even when I talk to her, like ‘hey Bianca don’t do that’. I know I need to not yell. Because I don’t want my daughter to yell. If I want her to finish a task, Then I have to show her I finished that task. If I want her to be responsible Or if I want her to clean her room, I got to make sure I do these things. Because it’s not so much how, what we say, I totally believe that it’s not

what we say, it’s what we do. If you tell her, ‘okay we don’t say shut up’ but then while you’re talking to your boyfriend or your husband and you’re cursing up a storm, then that’s what the say. And when they get to a place and they get to an age, and say ‘well this is what you used to do, this is what you used to talk about’…whatever the case may be, So I want to make sure that in everything that I do , And that everything I say , I really am an example Of what’s good and where She would want to go. You know I want to be just like my mom, I want her to see that. That there is ambition here, That I am motivated to move forward, To not just stay stuck in one place, To want better for myself, To love myself, to respect myself, You know so those are the things that I want for her But I have to do it myself. But Sometimes it’s hard, Sometimes you want to put yourself to the side And just focus on like, I was saying today, I focus on my daughter But I have to make sure that I , That I am a good example for her. So I kind of have to stop and take a step and And look at what I’m doing. You know I don’t want this to be something that she She sees and thinks oh it’s okay to do that. I want her to look at me and say ‘okay This is what she’s doing she’s pushing, She’s chucking forward even if she doesn’t want to, she does it, so I have to do it’. Cuz We always need to move forward. We can’t stay stuck when you think you know it all, You stay stuck in one place. And you don’t learn. Things change every single day. And we have to move along with it you know. We know we stop ourselves from learning. And that makes us stupid. You know we don’t want to be dumb. We don’t want to be stuck in one place. We don’t want to learn to a certain place and then just stop. We want to continue to learn. 

ALMINA Yes definitely, that was a great reminder. 

FRANCIS Yes yes it is 

ALMINA And then you said it was the end of being the example for your daughter and that’s exactly what I was thinking of the whole time and it’s I mean things that I grew up with amazing parents amazing Role Models but I have a lot of peers who due to their Guardians anyone in their life where they set expectations For the child or anyone in general , But don’t reflect the same behavior , It causes some sort of tension in between that like Prohibits learning And better Behavior And understanding so that’s Really really incredible that you have that mindset Not only for yourself but for your daughter. She’s incredibly lucky to have you. 

FRANCIS *laughs* thank you 

ALMINA no yea for sure. I just Love talking to you I feel like I’m getting so much insight. Cuz I’m only 22 but I tend to feel stuck in my life And I also feel like I know everything I know it all But at the same time I don’t know anything And life is so uncertain For me at this stage So little things like that when I hear it , I’m just like ‘okay that’s what I needed to hear’. So thank you 

FRANCIS you’re welcome

ALMINA Before we go into the COVID era, COVID time, can we, if you’re comfortable, go back to, you said you lost your faith around nineteen. 

FRANCIS Mhm 

ALMINA Was it due to the tragedy? And 

FRANCIS Yea 

ALMINA Cuz I never grew up religious so I never have conflicting thoughts when events happen, I never have to question my faith or my beliefs or my values. So I wanna hear what you have to say and your thought process during that time 

FRANCIS Sure, sure. So we believe in, with our faith, with our Christianity we believe in the God. And we trust in God and and all the way until 19, we went to church, I was very involved, I used to sing in church, I was on the worship team, I was president of the youth council. So I was very involved in the youth at the church and we loved it, you know. That was our life. And when my brother passed away, he was actually killed, so it was, it was hard you know. And it wasn’t that I stopped believing in God. It wasn’t that I blamed God. But it was just, our family isn’t perfect anymore. And I guess being in church for so long, It was kind of like a scapegoat. I had never done, I had never went out. I never drank, I never did anything. And so at this point I kind of felt, hmm, you know, It was kind of like an excuse to go out in the world. You know. I knew God was real I knew God was in control. It was an amazing testimony when my brother, when he passed away. So I knew my brother was in heaven, I knew God was faithful. We trusted in God. We relied on him for everything. Our hope was in him, Whenever we felt abandoned or lost, we just thought, ‘Lord help us’. And we would see it, we would see how things would kinda like turn. You know, cuz when you really trust with your heart, you can see what the things that happen. Like wait hold on, that wouldn’t have happened if I was here by myself. But because I trusted God, I trust God. And so when that happened, and things changed, and like I said, it wasn’t that I lost my faith, it was just kinda an excuse to do things that I didn’t do before. That’s when I started, I had never gotten my ears pierced. So I was in school, and I got my ears pierced. I ended up taking cosmetology, I was in school for cosmetology. So while I was there, I ended up getting my ears pierced. I even got a tattoo. 

ALMINA Oooo you’re bad *laughs* I’m just kidding 

FRANCIS *laughs* just things I didn’t do before, you know. 

ALMINA Was it thrilling for you at that time? Did it feel like, I know you mentioned escapism, Did you really, did it give you that boost?

FRANCIS Nope, because I felt like this is what, it didn’t change. I still felt like me. It didn’t give me a thrill, it just … I knew it was kinda like doing things I wasn’t supposed to be doing so at the same time, did I feel guilty? I didn’t feel guilty but I didn’t feel like, oh wow this is the new me! It wasn’t like that. And the more I did, and the more i had these friends, and all of a sudden, I got my new car and we were driving, you know, I’d drive them to the city and I was meeting all these, you know, famous people and, and you know, I had a boyfriend. And I was just like, okay…you know, and still I kinda felt like, no, I still feel the same way. I’m not getting a thrill out of none of this. You know. 

ALMINA Sounds like you’re very secure. From the way you’re talking now, very very secure. But i think even in your early 20s sounds like you’ve always had that security 

FRANCIS I think I’ve been stru- okay so I’m the oldest one and I kinda feel like the first child has this sense of strength. *laughs* you know, and I remember when my brothers were young, I remember first grade, I remember this little boy came and you know, we used to get bullied, I was very very little. And we were, you know, not too many Spanish kids in this school so we used to get bullied a lot. I remember, it didn’t matter who came but if you messed around with any of my two brothers, you know I was coming for you! And I remember like, you hit my brother so I would go and hit them. Or i would get something in, we’d beat the boy up or, or whatever the case may be. If someone would bully me, my brothers would help me. It was just like, I felt like I needed to do that for my brothers. I needed to protect my brothers. And I went through life like that, I kiinda needed to protect them. And then they got to a place where they were taller than me and would protect me but I still had that … 

ALMINA emotionally still, you still had that older, stronger .. 

FRANCIS Yes, older sister and I kinda felt like I had to be strong for myself and for them. You Know. I guess I was strong, idk 

ALMINA I think for sure yes 

That’s so funny cuz I’m a middle child. So with my little brother, I sometimes sense that and I realize with my brother I have more anxiety, I am mindful to not do this but I do hold a lot of expectations for him and I just want you to be, not perfect, but like, not … I don’t want anything to happen to you. But then with my older sister, also as children of immigrant parents, your parents come here with nothing, so they go to work and your older sister watches you at like six, seven years old. She is like second mother, always that nature in her, strong protector. 

FRANCIS Exactly 

ALMINA But with her, my brain turns off 

FRANCIS Because she’s your older sister

ALMINA Mhm. It’s a beautiful characteristic that older siblings have, but I do still sympathize with the things, not that you lost, or things that you couldn’t experience because you were the oldest and you kinda.. 

FRANCIS Right right 

ALMINA just the nature of it. Um…that’s really funny you guys would get in fights together *both laugh* 

FRANCIS And I still remember them all. 

ALMINA Okay so now we can dive into the COVID era. Can you describe what a, well you kinda did already, the unit associate role 

FRANCIS Right, … The unit associate is the secretary of the unit. The clerk, we’re transcribers. So that was like our main responsibility, to be the transcriber for the doctor. So everything that they wrote, we would put it into the computer. All the medications, all the orders. That was pretty much what we did, and then everything else, we kinda, it goes along with it. As time went by, we became paperless. So doctors started putting their orders into the computer so now we don’t have to do that. 

ALMINA Yes I remember you mentioning that 

FRANCIS So the role kinda changed a little bit. It’s gotten a little easier, I feel. But we still kinda, its kinda like, the one who takes cares of … it’s kinda like the glue that keeps everything together. And pretty how to kinda like, know a little bit of everything cuz everybody expects you to, to know what’s going on. It’s you know, nurses come to you, the PCA’s come to you, the doctors come to you, where is this, where is that, I need this, can you call there, you know, so it’s kinda like you need to really be…know what you’re doing at all times. What’s going on at all times. Even if you’re like, you’re writing something or listening to whats going on, because when somebody comes over, ‘where did this patient go’, ‘oh that patient went to cat scan’, you know, so somebody yells down the hall and they call your name and the voices different, you’re like somethings going on, you know, you kinda tend to read eachother’s voices. And wait, the way she called my name, ‘FRAAN’, it was different than ‘Frannn’, you know, and you go and you check, you call a code or ‘I need this stat’, you know, so you, again… it’s the secretary of the floor, yet you’re involved in almost every aspect except for hands-on with a patient. Even to a certain point, we would translate, so we would be in the rooms with the patients translating so it was just , you know, like I said, everything expect for the clinical. 

ALMINA How do you think your responsibilities changed during COVID? I’m sure you were working when COVID broke…actually, what was it like in January when news kinda

started out cuz it didn’t hit until March fully, the pandemic, so as someone in the health Field… cuz in January, I didn’t think it was really gonna be that bad. I was kinda just like, ‘oh … a new virus’ 

FRANCIS Right 

ALMINA So what was your thought process? 

FRANCIS So in the beginning, the beginning beginning…and we kinda noticed it in November, December. Like why are so many people, with the same symptoms coming 

back…we started seeing that , kinda around January when they started like, there was a buzz, we were like ‘wait wait, but we’ve been seeing this for a little bit now’, you know. People are taking notice. And so it kinda opened the doors for a lot of the things to start flying, you know, and start with the anxiety, and little things, it was just like, okay this is a little bit more stressful because this is something serious, something that’s going on, it’s not just here, not just one hospital. This is everywhere! You know, right, This is nationwide, this is worldwide. So to us it was, it was just like little pieces were clicking, pieces of the puzzle were kinda coming together in January. And you can kinda see people were starting to get nervous. 

ALMINA You think the professionals, you and your coworkers or … 

FRANCIS yes 

ALMINA …patients? 

FRANCIS Yea, no … coworkers. They would, we would get a case and still again, we didn’t know where we were. It was just, things were starting and as we got closer into, I think as we got closer to the end of February, we started seeing things that … Nobody wanted to kinda like pinpoint something or say something out of … maybe say something extra, so everybody was kinda sticking to whatever was being spoken already so there was nothing extra being said. And people were feeling the stress. And, I remember being on the unit, and I remember cleaning up and, and you know, they asked, we had a few isolation patients and, and… they didn’t want masks. They didn’t want anyone to wear masks. They didn’t want the staff, the professionals to wear any masks because they didn’t want the family to get nervous. So that’s how it kinda started. And it was very odd because you know, it…I personally, me personally, I had to…I was asked to like remove masks from the rooms and remove masks from hallways so that, like you know, people didn’t feel like they were there for a reason. You know. And they were always there before, there was nothing…but you know, because this was coming up and they didn’t want families to [??] . so this is how it kinda started, you started kinda feeling that things in the air, it was just like, okay something is definitely happening, somethings definitely changing

ALMINA So then when March hit, what was your mindset of, like okay, now it’s an emergency pandemic but you’re working, not only in a field but also as an actual building where you’re surrounded by infected… I don’t know if infected is the right word, but you know, people who have contracted it, did you ever fear going into work? Were you able to call off or was it, you were mandatory? 

FRANCIS We were mandatory. We were essential. It didn’t matter who, who it was. You had to be there. And in the beginning, we had quite a few people, um, we had quite a few people that, you know, not … in the beginning of the pandemic, so when everything started and it kinda just hit, it was just like, oh wow. Like this is, this is what we’re dealing with. So we started going through…we had people that had certain auto-immune diseases, that had certain, that could not be in the hospital. You know, cuz at this point this was something that they weren’t sure of what we’re dealing with. It was COVID-19 but they weren’t sure of what COVID-19 was. Like how is this contracted. Cuz at first they said it was, um, it wasn’t air borne but then it was air borne and it was a droplet and all these other things. So a lot of people they just kinda like, okay well I’m a single mom and I don’t have anybody to take care of those people when out. Single, you know, people that needed, that had families at home. Um, if you had um, anybody at home that was, that could get sick and had some kind of uh, sickness at home and you didn’t wanna bring this to the house, you were also excused. So we had a lot of people that were excused from work…in the beginning. Okay so, right off the bat, we were short staffed. Right off the bat. And then we kinda like put on our, our…how do you say it… put on our smiley faces and our strong, you know that strong side of us and we were like, okay well we just gotta do what we have to do. We didn’t think anything of it. You knew that we were needed there and the patients were, the patients weren’t gonna go anywhere. We had to be there because the patients were there. It wasn’t like we were there just because. It was because the patients were there so they needed someone to take care of them so we had to be there. 

ALMINA Did your role as a unit associate change during COVID in anyway? FRANCIS It did. Um…no, it didn’t. 

ALMINA No? Maybe more intense? 

FRANCIS It got a little di-… with COVID-19 at this point, when we started coming into the buildings it was a different vibe. Okay, it was all, altogether different. We would come in and you knew what you were coming into, coming into a place where you’re facing death. Okay, and you were facing disease, and you were facing um, contracting 

something. Okay um, before it was just ohh you didn’t think about it. You didn’t think, ‘Oh this person has um, has the flu’ and ‘this person is uncontact’, you didn’t think about that. But once COVID hit, it was just like, okay…I’m coming into this place and I can leave with something. So everybody, as you’re coming in, you’re protecting yourself. You know, and then N-95s, which you can’t breathe in them. Okay, and a lot of people

have um, allergies and that was something that they weren’t expecting. N-95s, you have to get fitted for. People weren’t fitted for them, not everyone was fitted for them so you weren’t wearing the correct mask to protect yourself so people were getting sick. Um, you had to wear um, they didn’t have anything-any- any protocol on what we’re wearing but you had to wear protective clothing. You know, your scrubs, there was some people that were not like, we weren’t uh, we were not allowed to wear scrubs before that, we wore business casual. When COVID-19 hit, we were wearing scrubs. We weren’t allowed to wear masks in the beginning but then obviously, when it became air borne and they open and close the doors, guess what, it was coming out and the clerks were the ones that were getting sick. Because the clerks were not clinical, we’re not bedside, you don’t need a mask, yet we were getting sick. So the clerks were getting sick. So then at this point, okay clerks are allowed to wear masks, clerks are allowed to wear, you know, uh a headwrap, they wore scrubs and um, it was a lot of…it was a little bit more paperwork That we had to do because now we had to make sure that we had the correct paperwork to identify the COVID-19 in different places and around the rooms, and a lot of supplies. At this point all the companies were short on supplies so we were short on supplies. It was, it was stressful. It was like stress all around, it wasn’t just coming into a place where your facing death but you could, you know, it was just while you were there, you were stressed out. You know, while you’re working you’re stressed out. Because it was so many things that were going on all at the same time. 

ALMINA Was that a daily feeling? 

FRANCIS It was…yes. There were days that I personally would cry coming into work ALMINA Mhm wow 

FRANCIS My daughter, they, they …I think it was like Friday right, it was March 19 I think it was and they said okay, schools are closed. And I was like, ‘WHAT’, you know. What is going on! And I remember I said ‘oh my god what am I gonna do I have to work’. I work and my mom and my stepdad actually got laid off from work so he was gonna be Home. So they, they sent her home with a chromebook and she was gonna do um… 

ALMINA Virtual 

FRANCIS …from home, right the virtual classes and I said, ‘oh my god’. My parents were, I live with my parents, with my mom and my stepdad. So they were willing to help me with my daughter as far as like, getting her ready for classes and virtual class. They kinda set up the whole basement, and they kinda made the different classes for her like an area for music and a little area for art and yea we have a whole basement, so she was able and, and. Thank god for my parents because if it wasn’t for them, I don’t know. Because she had to log in and she had to do these things, and this is all in 2nd grade. I didn’t even know she knew how to log in to a computer. I didn’t even know she could type. And she was like, ‘mom they’ve been teaching us this’. You know, and I remember, I was so

stressed out just thinking about her but I would go to work and – and knowing that I had to leave her and knowing that I was going to go into this place where … I didn’t know what was going to happen, I would cry. I would go to work crying. And I remember I put, I remember an N-95 on and I have rosacea and my face used to break out and it used to bleed from the N-95s and I couldn’t breathe myself. I felt like it was suffocating me. My face was so small and I was wearing a large so I had to kinda like, tuck it in and it was just like big. Like I said, all around together, it was just stressful. So you know, I wasn’t the only one. I remember my coworkers and they would kinda just look at me and, and – this is where you kinda stop recognizing people from their faces and only recognize them by their eyes. So we were, you would look at someone and you’re like, ‘oh I know who you are … you’re, this person. Oh I know who you are’. And the new people would come in and I’d be like, ‘I don’t know who you are’. You know, cuz I’d never saw your face. And I can’t read your… like I can’t remember just these eyes. Everyone was wearing a headwrap, a cap, and a mask, you know, so. And I remember my coworkers and they would just cry. And if they got a new patient, it was a COVID-19 patient, they would just, you know, they would cry. 

ALMINA That’s really terrifying. 

FRANCIS And they would feel the same way. And you know, my mom was with me and she started ` getting sick and she’s 80 and I can’t bring this home and you know, I have a sick child at home, I can’t bring COVID-19 home. I can’t you know. And the hospital started, um, being able to put people up in the hotels so that they didnt have to come home after. But imagine being week, two weeks, three weeks, away from your family because you’re you know, in the hospital working and going to a hotel after and you’re coming right back and so, you can imagine what kind of um, stress that was and how it played on your mind. We had a couple of young coworkers, I had a couple of young coworkers that did that. They were okay with that because they didn’t wanna bring anything home and it was very hard for them. These were young nurses and I had, I truly believe that you have to have the heart for nursing. You know, and I believe that these nurses that we have, they really have such a good heart, you know, a tender heart, just such a giving Heart, to be able to say, ‘I’m gonna put my life on the line to save yours’. You know, ‘I go to the hospital and put my life on the line just because …’ you know, you’re there. It’s very selfless 

ALMINA Exactly, very very selfless field you guys are all in 

FRANCIS Yes, so that’s, that’s how that was in the first few months. I ended up getting COVID-19. ALMINA Oh, when? 

FRANCIS I did, I got it in April actually. 

ALMINA So pretty early on into the pandemic?

FRANCIS Yes, yes. Very early on. I was actually…that, that first month, after like a week or two working on the floor, they kinda pulled me to help one of the coordinators like do a payroll and do ordering of supplies and that stuff because they kinda needed help with that so I was able to kinda help the hospital coordinator with that. And it started with my director *laughs* got the COVID and then we were all in the office so then my 

coordinator and I ended up having to take care of everything for about two weeks. And then all of a sudden, I got the COVID. And um, it hit me…hard. Like really hard. It was like, I think it was like March 27th. And it hit me really really hard. I got all of the symptoms , all of them. 

ALMINA For how long? 

FRANCIS *laughs* I was positive for a month and a half. 

ALMINA Woah 

FRANCIS Yes. So I started with like, I remember going to drop off the laptop to my coordinator at her house cuz she was home, she was gonna work from home. She had the COVID but she was feeling better after a week. And so I dropped it off, I remember dropping it off and saying, ‘wow I have such a migraine’. And I got to the house and I said, you know I’m gonna take a shower guys and I’m going to my … and that’s another thing, Everyone knew that when you got home, you had to take off your clothes and you couldn’t come into the house with this, you couldn’t, you know, you had to take off your shoes and make sure you were sanitized and I remember I used to Lysol 

myself and I used to take everything off at the door and kinda put everything in a bag and you know, and so I kept away from them cuz I didn’t want them to kinda come close. So they knew that when I got home, they’d be in the other room. I kinda came through the house and I remember telling them, they were having dinner, and I said ‘Hey guys I’m gonna go take a shower cuz I have a really bad headache’. I took a shower, came out of the shower, and it was a … paralyzing migraine. And I remember I was wrapped up in my towel and all of a sudden, I had chills and I threw myself on the bed. My mom was like, ‘you haven’t eaten dinner’. And I said, ‘you know what, I don’t feel good I’m just going to put on my pajamas’. I got the chills and um, it was Friday, it was a Friday, and I’m just gonna go to bed early guys’. And my mom’s like ‘okay’. And I said ‘I don’t think the baby should sleep with me, I think the baby should sleep with you guys’. And they were like ‘oh okay that’s fine’. Oh my goodness… it was, it was just chills and then the next day I had some more symptoms and then the next day I got more symptoms and, and it, you know, it was just like, okay so the migraine after a week, I didn’t have it anymore but then I had something different and it went off, it went from neuro all the way to GI [gastrointestinal] to my body, it went from head to toe. I ended up getting all these different symptoms 

ALMINA Wow

FRANCIS I, um, a month and a half later, they were pushing me to come back to work, pushing me to come back to work that I, you know, they needed us. They needed me back at work and so um, a month and a half later, I, I, you know, I tested and they said I was still positive. And I remember going back to work and they said, ‘well you’ve had it for, you know’ 

ALMINA A long time 

FRANCIS And I remember , um, there were six weeks and then, at eight weeks I was still positive. But I was still, I was at work. And I remember going back to work and I couldn’t breathe. I remember I had to walk and my legs were giving out on me. And I, I remember standing in the hallway doing one of my rounds and the director’s like, ‘are you okay?’ and I just can’t breathe. And you know he went and got me to do these breathing exercises with the spirometer and he’s like, um, you know ‘what’s the matter?’. 

I said ‘I don’t know I don’t feel 100%. I still feel like I have COVID’ you know. It’s still very fresh in my body. And even going back to work I was still getting new symptoms. I remember going back to work and that night I ended up having all these blisters on my feet and I had to call for, yea, my skin started peeling and it was like call the doctor. ‘No, no you can go back to work’ and you know, ‘that’s fine’. But you know, you’re getting all these different things and I’m at work and I’m like, ‘am I contagious? Am I not contagious? What’s going on?’. And um, and I heard people say, ‘oh I got this, I got that. I feel so much better’. You know, but I-I- I really did get that first strand of COVID where it really just affected every part of my body. And I’m still, I’m still going through the effects of it. 

ALMINA Oh really, in what ways? 

FRANCIS Um, so, uh. I went to like, like throughout the time, throughout the COVID, um, I still had symptoms, right. And then um, I had to start going to different doctors. I ended up going to a rheumatologist. And I said, you know, ‘I still have these, these pains in my legs like I have to stop halfway through and’. Okay so, in St. Joes we have to park across the street. Especially the morning shifts, so we park across the street, it’s called the O-Lot and we walk over, I’m gonna say it takes about a hundred feet. A hundred and fifty feet maybe. And I, I said after like twenty feet I’m out of breath, I’m short of breath. My muscles, my legs, feel like they’re gonna give out. And um, this all came from COVID. You know, and they’re [the doctors] like ‘ohh okay’. And so they started treating me with medications and doing all these tests and, and I-I, and I remember like if I had a migraine, after COVID, my migraines are stronger. If my body hurt, um, like when I’m PMS-ing, my body was, it would hurt even more after COVID. Um, I lost my sense of taste… which I still don’t have it 100% back. I have about 95% back, there’s still certain things that I can’t taste the way I used to taste. I remember what it tastes like but it doesn’t taste the same way it used to be. I still can’t smell 100%. I can’t smell fumes, I can’t smell um Fire…

ALMINA *gasps* 

FRANCIS …I can’t smell gas, I can’t smell gas. Like there’s times my mom’s like, ‘turn off the gas!’. I’m like ‘what are you talking about?’. And she’s like ‘the stove you have it on’. I’m like ‘I can’t smell it’. So it, it, it’s also scary. Something that’s still, how many years later, I’m still going through it. And um, it’s scary because I’m like, imagine if I, if I don’t, if somebody doesn’t realize that I left this on and I turn the house on fire. There’s a fire going on and I can’t smell it, I can’t get out of the house with my daughter. You know, it’s still very present like COVID has not left my life. It’s still very present in my life, um, mentally and physically. 

ALMINA Mhm. 

FRANCIS You know. 

ALMINA Did you ever contract it again or was that the only time you ever.. FRANCIS I did. I did. 

ALMINA No way. 

FRANCIS I did. Yes, yes 

ALMINA Just as long or was it shorter this time 

FRANCIS This one was short. And it wasn’t as strong, I really got that original strand so the second time I got it, it was, it was … I think this was 2022. 2022 I got it. So I had, yea. And then last year I ended up getting it again but it, I didn’t even realize. Like now you’re in a place where, oh you know, I have the sniffles, I have a migraine and it kinda all feels the same. You have allergies, or you have the flu, or you know, so it all kinda feels the same and you don’t even know until you actually go and get tested. And now they don’t even want you to get tested, cuz they don’t want anyone to know if you have it so you don’t have to miss work or you don’t have to get workers comp or you know, so to a certain point, you kinda feel like…ooo do I want to, is this gonna kinda like you know mess up my schedule or mess up my, you know, the next week or something. 

ALMINA Yea 

FRANCIS But yea, I did I had [COVID] three times already. But the last two times weren’t as long and they weren’t as strong. 

ALMINA Mhm..do you think these, like, lasting symptoms you have, do you think it’s permanent or do you think it’ll kinda like fade as time goes by?

FRANCIS *sighs* … I wanna be optimistic. I remember my first doctor, the first time that I had it, my primary doctor, I was on a virtual call and I told him about it, it was very … because it’s, it’s … it takes a toll. If they tell you… okay so like if they tell you, you can’t have anything to eat or drink before your procedure, right..and you’re like, ‘oh my god I’m super hungry or I’m super thirsty like I really wanna eat something ,, and you kinda, it’s something that kinda stays in your mind. So when I couldn’t taste anything, I was, it affected me. And I remember telling my doctor, ‘hey doc I still don’t have my taste back’ and I remember that was, that was maybe like six or seven months after. And he’s like ‘Yeah that’s because it affected you neurologically and you’re not gonna get your taste back and you know, just, just, get used to it’ 

ALMINA Whaat 

FRANCIS I was so upset. I was so upset because at this point, I wanted a steak. *laughs* I wanted to eat a steak and I’m like…are you kidding me doc. Are you kidding me…that you would come and say something like that to me. 

ALMINA So casually too. 

FRANCIS Like really. You know, it really has, it really has me stressed out that I cannot taste. I can’t taste anything. And I remember there was a time that I couldn’t even smell like… You kinda go through changes and I remember like if my mom was cooking and I couldn’t, like I would smell something and I’m like ‘oh my god that stinks’. And she’s like ‘Fran it’s just garlic and onion’. And I’m like ‘that stinks mom it stinks’. And I would have to leave because I’d get nauseous. And sick from the smells. Because they weren’t the same smells. Everything was different to me. And I remember [my doctor] telling me so casually, and I was so upset and I felt so hurt and I said, ‘don’t say that’. You know, don’t tell me that I’m not gonna get my taste back because that’s unfair. You know, what can I do to get, to go back. And [my doctor’s] like, oh I guess he really realized that it really did bother me the way he said it. And he’s like, ‘you know what, let’s just give it some time. Take your vitamins, continue to take your vitamins and let’s just, let’s just take it day by day’. You know. And I said at least that’s a little easier than what you said. You know, it really struck a chord. And yea, yea. So that’s pretty much how things have gone and you know, like I, and I kinda put it in my head like, I’m just gonna go day by day. Cuz it does, it does change. 

ALMINA Yea you said it was 95% now? 

FRANCIS Yea it’s about 95%. So not too bad. *laughs* 

ALMINA Good. It’s very surprising … 

FRANCIS I can taste chocolate

ALMINA Hmm? What? 

FRANCIS I can taste chocolate now so 

ALMINA Ugh perfect 

FRANCIS Yea, yea 

ALMINA I was gonna say, taste is one of the best sensations so how are you going to tell someone so casually, so young also that … nope 

FRANCIS Yes 

ALMINA Um… *laughs* I forgot what I was going to say. 

FRANCIS It’s okay! 

ALMINA Oh yeah, with um, since COVID has impacted many people including you, incessantly, Um, very lasting symptoms, did you see there was any empathy from your coworkers? Whether it was your actual coworkers or the nurses, the doctors, anyone on the floor… did they express any sympathy or empathy to the patients or was it kind of similar to your primary care physician, that attitude? 

FRANCIS No, no. There was definitely um, they definitely…they had to be sympathetic. They had to. Like there was…if, if you were not, you couldn’t be there. 

ALMINA Hmm 

FRANCIS It was just, it, it…it was such an overwhelming place to be. You know. That if you were, if you didn’t have that heart, you couldn’t do it. And we had a lot of nurses that couldn’t do it. We had a lot of um, uh…you know coworkers that couldn’t be there because they couldn’t wrap their heads around it. You know, and um, they really did. They really tried it, and you know when, you know … they didn’t have to say much. But when you have somebody that, you know, had COVID and we had all these things going on in the room, you had to have so much uh, so much equipment and different things you had to be ready for that patient so when you, when a nurse got a patient like that or even the PCA’s and they had to consistently go in-n-out of the room, you saw it there. You know. And let’s say a patient was calling in, I would get the call, they’d be like ‘hi I can’t breathe’ or you know the COVID patients would usually buzz, I’d pick up and ask them what’s going on, what do you need. So I could know who to send in because we don’t want overexposure. So if they needed a nurse, then that’s who I would tell. You know, ‘nurse, they need you here, they need medication, they’re having pain, or they need a treatment’, whatever the case may be. And if it was ‘oh I need to get cleaned up or I need to be

moved because I feel uncomfortable, I need a different pillow’, then I would have the PCA, I would tell the PCA. ‘Oh I need my respiratory treatment’, I would call respiratory. You know, so, and you would see that even though it was hard, even if they didn’t want to, even if they were…like they felt, you could see the burden on their shoulders, you could see it, you know, you could feel it. But they were like, ‘okay I gotta go in there’ 

ALMINA Aww 

FRANCIS And they were like, ‘I gotta do this’. And I remember like, Especially my older nurses, the younger ones are just like, ‘let’s goo let’s do this’, you know, not even a fight. But like your older nurses and your more seasoned nurses, you know, um, you just kinda know that it was a tough place to be but they were willing to do it and they did it with all their heart. You really saw how, uh, the empathy in all of them, when they would go in the rooms and take care of these patients and even on the phone when they would talk to them, and family members! You know cuz we had to deal with family members, it wasn’t just the patient themselves. We had patients, you know, family members couldn’t come to the patient’s room, um, they would call you a 100 times, they would, you know, it was just so many different things and throughout everything, they did it with such grace. 

ALMINA Mhm 

FRANCIS You know, wait I wanna be more like that, or wait wait. You know, I’m not feeling like I’m in that place today or right now this one, but I need to get there because you can’t show fear, you can’t show that you don’t want to be because they need you, they don’t wanna be here. You know and you knew it was a life-and-death type situation. It wasn’t just like okay um, we saw so much others like we didn’t even know if they were going to leave, you know. And that’s kinda like the way we were seeing it. Like no this person has to leave and it wasn’t 100% guaranteed that just because you came to the hospital with COVID, you were going to get better and leave. You know. And we knew this. So we wanted you to leave but we knew that it was, it was tough for the patient. 

ALMINA Yea for sure. 

FRANCIS You know, and being alone. And being kept away from your families, and even away from staff. You know, cuz sometimes you have to limit how much, um, exposure you had. So we would go at certain times, do everything together, and you know. So the patient was also feeling this. Alone with the COVID. You know, they also felt, you know, the stresses of what was going on around them. They would see it. And some of them couldn’t cope with it either. You would hear them and they’re like, ‘But why don’t you want to be around me and why can’t you come in here’. And like the older patients ‘but I need somebody’. They just wanted someone to talk, you know. Sometimes they would call me just to talk on the phone. But it was just, there was sooo many different things going on at the same time that if you weren’t sympathetic, if you didn’t really have the heart for it, you couldn’t be there and you wouldn’t have been able to survive.

ALMINA It’s really incredible for essential workers, all of them, to come in every single day. Cuz I’m sure your shifts, did it, times increase…probably, your shifts? Or no? 

FRANCIS the changes…no. You could do doubles and they definitely needed more people and so you were able to do more time and um, and everyone, everybody, everyone kinda pitched in. everyone did. From doctors to nurses, um, to housekeepers. You know, even the housekeepers, like environmental services. They had to come and clean these rooms. You know, and everyone … that’s why it was like, essential. Essential workers is Everyone that works there because everyone is exposed. 

ALMINA Right. 

FRANCIS Everyone had to do the same thing. And in a different way. Like my, my, my… What I was exposed to, the things that I saw were not what a nurse would see. They saw more , they went through more, they went through something totally different. You understand. This was my experience from outside the bubble, can you imagine from… well, you know, from a different perspective in the bubble. 

ALMINA Mhm, right. Definitely different realities for sure but like you said, you were still in the same vicinity 

FRANCIS Right. 

ALMINA And you were the glue, so everything interconnects. 

FRANCIS Yea, yea 

ALMINA I’ve heard certain things about different, whether it’s racial groups or economic demographics, they are treated differently in hospitals and I feel like North Jersey is pretty diverse. Did you…do you think covid impacted any communities, especially communities of color in any certain way or did you not experience… 

FRANCIS No I guess because in Paterson, the community is very diverse. So we had it all. As far as the patients that came in, is that what.. 

ALMINA Yea 

FRANCIS Diversity in patients? No, you saw it everywhere. Like you saw it in everyone. There was no particular , there was no… no, no. 

ALMINA Okay, good. 

FRANCIS Very diverse there. So you saw it everywhere, in everyone. It wasn’t like, oh we’re seeing

more in Hispanics or in … we saw it in everyone. 

ALMINA But did you observe any instances where social or economic factors seemed to affect how patients experienced the pandemic, whether it was the pandemic or actually experiencing the virus? 

FRANCIS Um…maybe because … maybe when um, … no. Let’s see… 

ALMINA We can always skip it. 

FRANCIS Noo, how about, ask me again. Ask me it again but maybe in a different way. 

ALMINA um, I had it written down somewhere. *both laugh* Let’s say a patient is experiencing the pandemic or the COVID. 

FRANCIS Okay. 

ALMINA Did their financial status change anything, I’m sure for the lower class it’d be harder for them to accommodate, like, let’s say a lower class family, the parents are working, the kids are in school, they don’t have money to pay for a babysitter or they don’t have, you know, family or friends around, things like that. Whereas a more rich family, they do the money to buy these resources that are limited…in toilet paper, masks, unlimited masks like things like that, did you experience anything whether it’s social or economic factors affecting how people experience… did that make sense… 

FRANCIS Yea, yea. That made sense. You do. And um, we had a lot of people that would come in and um, and you kinda just look at them, and you’re like ‘why don’t you have a mask on?’. And they would, you know, ‘I’m sorry’, you know, and then they would come in the hospital, like they would come in, um, just come in to get a mask. Because they couldn’t find masks. And they couldn’t…and we were so short in the hospital ourselves. Um, so weird because in the hospital, we ended up, like in the beginning of the pandemic, we had to reuse masks. *laughs* which was insane because that just doesn’t … I don’t even know what to say about that. But yea that’s what was going on. But we did have a lot of people from the community that would come in and um, express ‘oh you know I got [COVID] because I didn’t have a mask or I went here and I didn’t have the proper protection, I didn’t think I needed it’ and stuff like that. And so you kinda saw where um, how hard it was for some people … especially in the Paterson, and I’m gonna say specifically the Paterson community. Because even us as workers, sometimes it was hard for us, you know. So we couldn’t…we knew that they were struggling as well. You know and we knew that there were families that would come in and they would say that, you know, ‘he had to work and that’s where he got it. They didn’t have any protection and that’s why he’s here’, you know, ‘because he didn’t, we didn’t know where to get a mask from’. So you did hear a lot of different things as far as like, uh, how much, um, how much supplies and how many things weren’t as available for everyone. Especially if you

didn’t have the funds for it or you didn’t have the connections for it. So yes, we did see that. We did see that. 

ALMINA When do you think everything died down at the hospital? Whether it was the in-take of patients or the severity of cases, when did everything kinda start coming back to normal? If it did, even. 

FRANCIS When the cases started going down. So when the hospital wasn’t 90% COVID. We started seeing the numbers kinda go down and um, and they really wanted this, they really wanted it to go away fast. You know, it was a scary place for the patients, it was a scary place for the employees. You know, um, so they…I think by like, I wanna say 2022. It was in the like early, in the beginning of the year. They kinda started with the masks and stuff, and how you didn’t need it. And if the numbers went back up, they would say, okay mandatory masks. That happened once or twice in 2022. Um, but people didn’t want to wear masks. And um you know, because if you wore the mask, you were recognizing that it was still there, it was still happening. You know, and you didn’t want it. You know people wanted to be in that denial and … 

ALMINA Oh wow 

FRANCIS Has it completely gone, no. Did it ever completely go…no. We still have plenty of COVID patients everyday. Okay. Um, we have COVID patients everyday. 

It’s different though because now there’s more education. Right, like people are educated now going through the experience and so many things that now, that’s 

known about it , so uh, you don’t get as nervous, you don’t get as anxious, you know what to do. Um, you know, from 30/40 patients on a floor, you would now we have maybe like 3 or 4 COVIDS. Before it was 20 COVIDS. You know, and how do you deal with so many patients like that and not um, you know, cross-contaminate type say, you know. Because you would have 6 patients and let’s say 3 of those patients had COVID And the other three didn’t, and all of a sudden, two or three days later, these patients are covid positive. So now we’re, they’re, they’re in a different … we’re in a different place. We’re in a place where uh, we know how to a , how to deal with it. You know. From nurses, all the way down to PDS, all the way down to housekeeping. oh this is a COVID and they know exactly what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and that’s it. 

ALMINA Everything’s more manageable. 

FRANCIS Right, right. You’re used to it, you know. It’s not so scary since you know, like I said, we went through it. 

ALMINA Right. Both in your career and your personal life, did you ever experience anything like the pandemic? 

FRANCIS No, never.

ALMINA Same. 

FRANCIS Yea, yea. It’s life experience right, like I guess people are gonna be like, oh you know, 20 years from today they’re gonna be talking about them at your kids school and you’re gonna be like, ‘oh yea I went through that I lived through that time, that era, that was me, that was my time, that was in my 20s and .. um, no never. Never, I couldn’t even … I think even going through it, I was like ‘are we REALLY going through this, is this really real’. You know, and it’s not just us here, but worldwide! It was just something…and you think about like, wait did that happen. I’m like, ‘oh yea that happened’. You know, it did happen, that was my time, I lived through that, you know. But… 

ALMINA It was a complete 180 

FRANCIS Like everything else, it’s a learning experience. 

ALMINA Yeah. For sure. And it’s funny cuz in the moment, it seemed like time was going by pretty slow with um, the lack of knowledge and the lack of resources for a lot of people, how quickly stores just sold out for the common people, but it also went by so fast! I feel like we all adjusted pretty quick. 

FRANCIS We did. 

ALMINA Um, I mean obviously there were some flaws but for the most part, everyone adjusted very quick and it was just crazy. I remember even around 2022, I looked back at 2020 and I was like, ‘no way that was two years ago’. Even three years ago our lives were completely different. 

FRANCIS Completely different right. So fast yet so slow. Yes. 

ALMINA MHm. 

FRANCIS Totally different yea. 

ALMINA Um…while you contracted COVID for the first time, it was around like April, May… FRANCIS April. 

ALMINA Do you remember hearing the news about the Black Lives Matter movement, what was your um, the knowledge you had and your perspective on it? Were you up to date with the news? 

FRANCIS I was, I was up to date with the news. It was … that first… when I was sick, I was actually like away from everyone at that time. I was isolated for a month and a half,

my birthday went passed, my birthday was in April. And I remember being in my room for my birthday and I remember Mother’s Day, it was uh…Mother’s Day came in May and I was still in my room cuz I was still positive. And um, the whole Black Lives Matter was … it was horrible. To look back on that is wild. Cuz so many different things that happened and you would see it on the news, I would see it on the news, and it was just like wow I can’t believe this is actually going on too, you know. You see, as a minority you see it , you go through certain things, right. Um. and almost like you want to be in denial about it sometimes like you know, I went through it but it’s okay it was apart of life. It’s, it’s…no it wasn’t that , it really wasn’t [editor’s note: as in, whatever happened wasn’t racially motivated]. That’s just, it’s just people are cruel and um, I just, I just I … I’m really torn with the whole Black Lives Matter , you know, really torn about it. I guess because everything, you hear so many things on the news and it’s just like you don’t know which way things are and how accurate the news is, and how unfortunate, how things can still happen here in the US. and how things can get to a point where somebody loses their life, right? That certain situations would get to a point where someone has to lose their life. Because I understand like, you know I did something wrong, you did something wrong, but you know, you kinda catch it and you kinda you know, we’re able to fix it or talk through it. Right, that’s how,,, okay when something goes wrong this is pretty much what happened. But when it gets to a place where somebody has to lose their life, for you to say, ‘wait … why’. Why is this happening and you know, I believe all lives matter, I believe every life matters, you know, um, life, life! Life matters. And all lives matter, it’s just, I-I-I think about the certain things that happened and it’s just like, you really feel torn with how our society, the law, but…I don’t know. Maybe with, with, with … personally, with everything that I have seen with the law, I kinda feel like they…I don’t feel like the law has always been on the right side. If that makes any sense. I don’t know if that makes sense. Oh cuz…I have seen a lot of injustice, I have seen , you know, I have seen where the law is not …does not work for everyone. You know, um, maybe from like our own experience when my brother was killed and you know, we saw the way the law just wasn’t…it didn’t work. You know, and how people could just get away with doing bad and hurting people and they get away with it and they get…you know, so. I guess maybe from that perspective that’s why I feel that way. Like i have seen this, it didn’t really surprise me but that it’s still going on and someone had to lose their life… um 

ALMINA Right 

FRANCIS So yes. I don’t know if that was the right answer 

ALMINA No, there’s no right or wrong answer. Um, cuz in class we always talk about how during COVID, everyone was so isolated that, that’s why everyone brought so much attention and awareness to social justice. 

FRANCIS Right.

ALMINA So I just wanted to know your perspective. But I completely understand you and it’s really unfortunate when the law, just people in power, like police for example, um, just don’t support plain human innocent souls. It’s really upsetting, it kinda makes you lose trust in the … both the country we live in but also the system you’re under. The system that literally governs you. Do you think the, whether it’s either Black Lives Matter or racial injustice, does it interfere with work at all? Because I know during Black Lives Matter, during the riots and everything, there was a lot of violence. I don’t know if there was any violence in North Jersey but did you see anything? 

FRANCIS Um, in Paterson, we had a couple of like, um, protestors. We had some walks and did I ever come across anything violent? No. At work, they did send out some e-mails , they did have open counseling if anyone needed to. They did have that at work for us. If we felt like, you know, we had to speak to someone or um, just like the COVID-19, they 

kinda like, you know, if anyone needs to, for mental health or if anyone needs to talk to someone, just kinda go over some stuff. And they would try to clarify you know different things at work, as far as like, with race and prejudices, and so they kind of tried to keep that line open, that language line open for the workers. But I don’t think we ever felt like there was, anybody was being pointed out or anyone felt like … maybe… I don’t think anyone felt like it was personal at work. If that makes sense. 

ALMINA No it does. It’s really interesting. Um…i think we’re kinda getting to the end of it. Thank you for staying with me for so long. 

FRANCIS Aww *laughs* oh my god, I didn’t even realize how long we were on here for 

ALMINA *laughs* so, is there anything else that you would want people to understand about working in the healthcare field during such a turbulent time? 

FRANCIS It put things in perspective. And it goes, like I told Kyle, um, coming to work and having to face fears, right, uh, different fears, really put things into perspective. And it made, me, make this personal, it made me more aware and how much I knew one day we could be here and one day we’re not. You know, we don’t have tomorrow promised and so we have to appreciate everyone that’s around…everyone that we love. You know, and I know it’s so cliche like ohhh tell the person that you love everyday that you love them. But it’s not just that, it’s not…it’s, it’s appreciating people for who they are and what they are in your life, you know. I thank God for my mom and my dad and for my step-dad too, you know, for my daughter and I think my daughter kinda gave me that, that drive to just keep trucking forward and to do what I have to do, to, you know. So I knew I had to do it for them, you know, I knew I had to go to work and I had to get through it and I had to come back for my family cuz they were waiting for me. I knew that just as much I was scared to go to work, they were scared for me. You know, so it kinda, it really made you appreciate your family, the people that you love, the people that love you cuz It’s like oh my god you know, I didn’t think that they would feel pain for me for having to

go through something, you know, and I saw in my family, how they were scared for me. You know my brother and he would call me, he would come and visit me through my window and you know, throw rocks at my window so I could kinda just wave at him and say hi cuz I didn’t know, you know, we didn’t know if I could, you know, uh, he would get anything from me opening the window and us talking through there and we’d FaceTime with him being outside. And I remember him standing outside the window and they would FaceTime me while I was still sick and so it, it really makes you appreciate your day, the people in your life, um, the people that God chose to be in your life, you know. And to be able to get through something like that, get through the pandemic, get through such a hard time… that everyone was going through at the same time. But to be able to get through and look back and say, ‘wow, you know, I went through that and I’m still here’. I’m still here and I’m thankful to God that I had my family and I feel like, okay I know that I’m stronger because of it. I see how many people lost their lives, you know, and they didn’t even know they weren’t going to come out of that hospital . So you really do learn, I learned how to appreciate life. You know… in every sense of the word. You know…and how to thank God for every second because one minute we could be, you know, here and the next minute is just like, lights off and…and whatever’s not done is not done. You know, you can’t go back and the one thing that you can’t change is death. 

ALMINA Right. 

FRANCIS Like you know , you painted the room the wrong color and you can go back and change the color. I’ll just spend another $30 and buy another can and spend two more days…you can fix it. You know, I forgot to do this paper, oh I’ll call my professor and get an extension, I can fix it. You know, death is the only thing that you cannot fix. Even life, Okay I’m gonna get out of here [the hospital] and I’m gonna go and take my vitamins and I’m gonna take my medication, I’m gonna make sure that I exercise and I eat healthy, you can fix it! You know, but after death, you can’t fix anything. So that’s what I came out of the whole pandemic with appreciating life, appreciating everyone that God put in my life and thanking God for every second that he allows me to be on this Earth. 

ALMINA Wow, that just like…really put it into perspective for me of how you literally just can’t fix it. And when you were talking about just appreciating the people around you and everything, I think it’s just the emphasis on just stillness, and contentness. 

FRANCIS Yes..yes. 

ALMINA Cuz people tend to appreciate only when you really feel excitement or something, but you just have to appreciate that you have what you need. Food, shelter, family, friends, … 

FRANCIS Yes 

ALMINA …love, that’s it.

FRANCIS Simple, simple. 

ALMINA Like I always say um, you know when you’re really sick and you’re just like, ‘I wish I was able to go to sleep and capable of breathing and not having to cough or sneeze every few minutes’ and you’re like ‘I just need to cherish those healthy moments’ And that’s kinda the same thing, just appreciate that everything is still and just…you have it, you know. 

FRANCIS Exactly, that you have it, that it’s there. 

ALMINA Mhm. It’s really really like..that was so touching. 

FRANCIS Aww 

ALMINA Really terrifying perspective though of like wow… 

FRANCIS It’s hard! 

ALMINA …it could happen to anyone. And then like, I really sympathize with you for having to face that every single day, not only seeing patients or your coworkers going through it, it’s your family that you’re coming home to who are also…you know you’re coming into that literal warzone everyday for work and you have your parents, and your young daughter, like, … like you said, it was a lot going on with everything. Physical, mental, lot of stress 

FRANCIS Right – emotional, every, every aspect of it. 

ALMINA Did you ever, did you ever think about quitting in that time or no? Or was it just that selfless drive of ‘I gotta do this’? 

FRANCIS I did. *laughs* I thought about it a couple of times. You know, I thought about it but I needed to provide for my daughter. So that’s what kinda kept me there. But there were times that I kinda felt like, like I can’t. You know sometimes I mentally I couldn’t. Mentally I was having a battle in my mind. Like I can’t come …I- I’m so happy that you understood what I was trying to say , like it came across because I think that’s what I said, I hope I’m…I can speak to her the way I talk to Kyle because if Kyle understood what I was trying to say…you know because sometimes people don’t understand and they can’t see that part of it, you know. Um, but, yea, yea. I kinda felt like no, I had to be here, um, everybody wanted to run away. You know everybody wished that they didn’t have to be there but you kinda were just there. 

ALMINA Yea

FRANCIS And you rolled with the punches. You took day by day and you know, it was what it was. 

ALMINA The thing is those emotions you feel of like, I can’t do this anymore, the stress is taking a lot on me… it’s soo overwhelming that… 

FRANCIS Yes 

ALMINA …it sticks with you, it carries on with you but then like, especially for you cuz that was your job, there’s just that one little like block of a push in your brain to just be like, You just gotta bury all those emotions in , which is a lot ! 

FRANCIS Yea 

ALMINA A lot. Um.. 

FRANCIS We lost a lot of coworkers. Like everytime we lost someone they would put it up on our work email and it was a lot of secretaries, a lot of clerks, a lot of unit associates that passed away and it’s just like wow…you know. It wasn’t just nurses, it wasn’t just… we had doctors , we had you know just, so much different staff across the board that got sick and we had so many people that passed away. 

ALMINA That really puts it into perspective also. 

FRANCIS Yea, cuz it wasn’t just losing patients. But we were losing like, we consider ourselves a family. Right. The family we didn’t choose. You go there you see, ‘hi good morning’ and you kinda see eachother everyday and all of a sudden, that one person’s not there to say good morning and it’s like wait…where is this person. And they’re a part of you! They’re a part of your work family. You know, and we would see another name, another person, even if it was St. Joe’s Wayne [another hospital], we didn’t…but we knew it was a part of the family. We knew it was, it was devastating. 

ALMINA The connection .. 

FRANCIS It was another human being and a part of our family, a part of our work family. And it struck a chord, it really did. And it was, maybe it was a mental thing, but it really struck a chord, just knowing that another one of OURS , you know, had just fought a battle and didn’t win. You know. 

ALMINA But during work when that unfortunate would happen, would you guys just be expected to just kinda still push through and go back into work despite losing someone so close to your unit? 

FRANCIS Yea, yea.

ALMINA Aw. 

FRANCIS We had to, we had to. It wasn’t…there wasn’t a question , you had to keep going. ALMINA Mhm. Okay, I think this is the last question. And thank you again for bearing with me. FRANCIS No problem. 

ALMINA But in relation to both COVID and Black Lives Matter, do you hope to see any changes in both the health field and um, I guess just society in general? Any changes or any thing that you would want everyone to realize? Uh…you did answer the health care one, about putting everything into perspective but any other comments? 

FRANCIS And in Black Lives Matter, yes…that, that…society would change. That our culture would change. That we realize that, you know, a life doesn’t have to be lost before changes come. You know, that if we see a problem, we can identify it and, and not again wait until we lose a life. I think that it’s so common now that …we don’t, even in the health field, things don’t change unless there’s something so drastic, something like losing a life cuz you can’t bring life back. You know, it has to be something so traumatic where you can’t go back and fix it in order for them to say, or for them to shift and say, oh you know, ‘let’s try something else let’s do this’. I feel like, I think everything and now with the elections and everything going on, it’s just like, you know, something has to give, something has to change. There has to be a shift. You know. Um, And i hope that in the near future, not far future, but in the near, that you know, those with power … right, because sometimes you feel like you have all these ideas, you want things to change and , but, unless someone in office or has power to change this , it’s not gonna change. So right now, I just I pray that , you know, the right people are in office and people that have the power to move, to shake, to change, and make things better – healthcare and for Black Lives Matter, for all lives that matter, for, for, for everyone under…under,, especially here, you know, especially in the US where we kinda all fall underneath , we all kinda fall underneath that , that higher power. Where they are the ones who can make change and I just hope that the right people are with the right mind, that can actually do, say something and actually follow through and do it. You know. 

ALMINA Yea, I hope so also. And I hope it’s not triggered from a tragic event like you said before. Like hopefully the realization doesn’t only stem from something so bad you can’t reverse it, that NOW you have to make change 

FRANCIS Right, right. Exactly. 

ALMINA Mhm, cuz society itself, they come together. Like the Black Lives Matter movement, everyone comes together and spreads awareness but then, it’s those in power who really ….

FRANCIS Can do something about it. 

ALMINA …put it all into effect. 

FRANCIS Right, right. You know. 

ALMINA Yea. *recording stopped* 

Ok I stopped the recording, but the ⅔ of the interview, everything about COVID, it was really interesting to hear everything you said. I said this before but it put a lot into my perspective, not only of the field you’re in and all your coworkers, but also just hearing your own personal like , it just made me really feel for you, you know. And then I’m like so happy to be here with you after all that, you’re healthy, you’re alive, you… 

FRANCIS Yep that’s right. 

ALMINA …have a beautiful family, um, it just made me really realize definitely be more appreciative, you know. Yes, we’re in the moment but how much are we really in the moment, you know like genuinely… 

FRANCIS Right. 

ALMINA …appreciating everything and not, kinda just living and going forward aimlessly. But I really liked our conversation before. 

FRANCIS Awww. 

ALMINA I feel like, I just wanna talk to you and get so much wisdom. 

FRANCIS Awww thank you so much. I really appreciate you for letting me talk. *laughs* ALMINA Of course, I’m grateful for Kyle … 

FRANCIS And I’m not a talker! I’m not much of a talker. 

ALMINA Really?? 

FRANCIS When I get inspired with things that I feel heartfelt with, then I can talk. ALMINA Wooow, you did amazing. I feel like I got … 

FRANCIS Woooooo 

ALMINA …so much, everything I needed. But, not even just for the project. Like it was genuinely valuable for me personally. I’m grateful for Kyle for connecting us!

FRANCIS Yesss so am I 

ALMINA Yayyyy and thank you again for joining me in this discussion FRANCIS It was well worth it! 

*end of transcription*