Madeline Lavoie
Stanislav (Stas) Ginzburg
Madeline: Okay, I think it’s working.
Stas: Yes!
Madeline: Okay so again it’s nice to meet you!
Stas: Likewise.
Madeline: Just a little brief overview of who I am. My name is Madeline Lavoie, you can also call me Maddie. I am originally from Boston, MA and then I moved to New York for school at Pace. I am a senior this year which is very exciting. I’m almost done!
Stas: Congrats!
Madeline: Thank you! I am a sociology major with a minor in Psychology, which is kind of how I got involved with this project. I think it’s important to hear people’s stories such as yourself and I think it’s inspiring for not only the rest of the Pace Community to hear but people from the public as well. I think it’s a very influential project and it’s people like you that make it as influential as it is. So that’s who I am. I guess let’s just begin by having you tell the audience a bit about yourself, where you’re from, your background, and so on.
Stas: Um, okay so my name is Stanislav Ginzburg. I am originally from Russia. My hometown is called Orenburg which is on the southern tip of Ural Mountains near the border of Kazakhstan. And my whole family immigrated to the U.S. in 1999. So it’s been, this summer it’s been, 29 years which is kind of crazy to think about. Um, I grew up watching my dad, was an amateur photographer. So, I grew up back in Russia watching him take pictures of our family and his friends. He was shooting black and white film which is all that was available. Um, at the time. So he would develop his pictures in our kitchen. So I would just hang out with him and watch him go through the process you know with trays of chemicals and then larger. And hanging up the prints in our bathroom with clothes pins and so on. So I think that’s how like my interest in photography, that’s where it originated. But I actually started doing photography myself when we moved here and I went to highschool in Brooklyn, Edward Murrow High School, which was an arts high school. And, they offered a whole bunch of photography classes. So I took the one on one black and white photography. And um, it’s been kind of like a straightforward road ever
since then. And I went to Parsons and I majored in photography and it’s just been my, it’s been my journey.
Madeline: Amazing thank you. Yeah, you kind of already touched upon three of my questions! Stas: Oh, haha!
Madeline: You’re really good at this! I was going to say I saw that you graduated from Parsons where you studied photography. I was going to ask for you to elaborate on that passion of yours and why you chose to pursue photography. I think we got a glimpse of that, but what made you decide to do it full time as your career path?
Stas: Um, so you know when I kind of started doing it by myself I just knew that that’s something I found that was my passion. You know that this was for me. I didn’t really question it much, there was no question in my mind that oh did I want to go to university and study something else? Of course my parents being immigrants they wanted me to be you know a dentist or a lawyer, the usual haha!
Madeline: Haha of course.
Stas: Instead my sister and I we’re both artists. My sister is an interior designer, and uh you know I’m a photographer. So, that’s just how it panned out.
Madeline: Amazing thank you. Okay so I wanted to touch upon this as well. When the protests for racial justice began in May 2020, how did you use photography to express yourself and/or speak out about those matters?
Stas: So, when that happened I was doing very different kinds of photography at the time. My work was more introspective, it was more abstract. I was actually exploring some 3D modeling at the time combining with photography. So, it was sort of different. And I had never done portraits of people before. Up until, you know, May 2020. But then when the protests started happening I just remember feeling so incredibly anxious at home and watching the news. And the news cycle was just the end of the world. Just everything combined with Covid and everything that was happening on the streets. So I thought I just have to get out there and get out of the house and see for myself what’s happening out there. And um, probably the first two or three protests I went to I didn’t even bring my camera. I just went to see what was going on, to see it with my own eyes. To participate, observe, hear people talk. Um, talk about the issues. And um, when I got there I was kind of in awe of just how many people came out onto the streets and also how young people were. I was meeting people who were 17, 18, 20 years old who were leading these marches across the city. Including thousands of people, and speaking out on the
issues and being incredibly articulate. And, I just remember thinking oh my god what was I doing when I was that age. You know, certainly not— haha!
Madeline: Haha!
Stas: Not anything like this. This was just absolutely incredible. So I thought I have to start photographing these people that I’m meeting and their faces. And so I started bringing my camera and I kind of fell into portraiture photography which was very new for me. And um, yeah five years later I’m still doing it.
Madeline: Amazing good for you! Yeah your work is very inspiring. I’ll touch upon that in a bit. But I was stalking your website a bit haha!
Stas: Ah thank you!
Madeline: I got emotional at some points because you’re just able to capture everything so beautifully. I’ll get to that but—
Stas: Thank you, thank you very much!
Madeline: Yeah I’m a big fan! I’m going to keep going through just to make sure I don’t forget anything. But again if there’s questions that you don’t have an answer to right away you can just take a few minutes to think about what you want to say.
Stas: Yeah and vise-versa if you want me to elaborate on anything that I’ve said just let me know.
Madeline: Oh no you’re doing great, if anything over-achieving all of these questions I’m checking right off!
Stas: Haha!
Madeline: So, in my research I discovered that a variety of your portraits have expanded into different exhibits and museums. What’s your overall goal with sharing your unique pieces with the world and have you achieved what you were looking to gain out of sharing your work?
Stas: Um, I think I’m just starting honestly. My work is just starting to make its way into group shows here and there. Um, my goal is to have maybe books published of my work and also have some solo shows. But the goal is for people to see these portraits and kind of connect to the people in my photographs. And my portraits are very straight forward, you know the person is looking at the camera, looking at the viewer. So there’s this connection that I think people can
make with the person that’s in the photograph. And I just want the viewers to know that these folks were out there on the streets. They showed up, they did the work, they fought for their right to speak freely, unapologetically. And they fought for the right for other marginalized communities to be able to do the same. And that’s kind of amazing to me. Also my portraiture focuses a lot on the queer and trans community and non-binary folks. That’s kind of the primary focus of my work in general. So, I want people to realize that this community is out there, it’s not afraid to show up for different kinds of issues, not even queer and trans issues. But it’s for women’s rights, bodily autonomy, rights. And um, yeah just look how amazing this community is. What they’re wearing, how they present themselves, how strong they are. Um, I want people to see that and connect with the people in my photographs.
Madeline: Amazing thank you. Okay that actually leads me to my next question. I was going to say it’s clear when reflecting on your work that you are a major advocate for the trans community. Your pieces such as Black Dress 2022, Boy with Bandages 2021, Young Couple 2024, and so on. What inspired you to get involved in that line of advocacy? And I know you touched upon this a bit but is it personal to you? What drew you to that community the most?
Stas: Mhm. So I’m a gay man myself and when I started going out to the streets I think it was June, early June 2020 I met this incredible community that went by the name of the Stonewall Protests. So this was a space specifically dedicated to black, queer, and trans folks and it was
started by two black, trans women. And they didn’t see presentation of queer and trans lives in the general Black Lives Matter movement so they decided to start their own march called the Stonewall Protests. So this was, this became a real community of people who met every single Thursday for a year. So every week, during 2020-2021 no matter what the weather was, if it was in the middle of winter, the snow, and the wind, and the rain, people showed up and people participated. And um, there was also a whole community of photographers who came out and photographed these marches and rallies, and I was one of them. And Aperture published a book about this um, this march, two years ago in 2022. Um, so that’s how I met a lot of people through the community. That’s how I got to know a lot of the folks that are in my photographs. And then you start seeing the same people over and over again at different kinds of events, different rallies, different actions. And um, now I’ve transitioned into portraits inside of people’s homes. Or, living spaces rather, because not everyone lives in an apartment. I photographed somebody who lives in their van for example. Um, and it’s also all LGBTQ community based work. So, a lot of the people who I met on the streets I am now photographing them inside their homes.
Madeline: Yeah I noticed that on your website, it kind of shifted from the protest perspective— Stas: Mhm
Madeline: To you know, a more personalized setting.
Stas: Yeah it really allowed me to spend a bit more time with people. Because, when I’m photographing on the streets, the streets are very chaotic. There’s lots going on especially when there’s a march happening. And I kind of pull a person out of the march and ask if I can take their portrait and I really only have a minute and a half three minutes tops before that person kind of gets bored or anxious because they want to catch up with a friend and the march has passed already. So there’s not a lot of room for very personal kind of interaction. It’s just a very quick moment. But the work that I’m doing now inside, it allows me to talk to people at length, find out what their story is, what their background is. And those sittings are usually an hour and a half so it’s a very different approach.
Madeline: Yeah and I’m sure they’re much more comfortable being in their own setting, getting to know you a bit more. So some of my pieces of yours personally are Neptunite 2024, Qween J—
Stas: Oh haha!
Madeline: — 2023, Jeremy 2024. I’m a big fan of your website.
Stas: Haha thank you!
Madeline: All of your photographs are very unique that’s for sure, and you’re certainly an expert at storytelling through each shot. Do you ever find yourself struggling to come up with new ideas and what does your creative process look like?
Stas: Um, yeah so I don’t know if struggling is the right word but I’m definitely very aware that I don’t want to repeat myself. Especially with portraits that are taken inside people’s homes. Um, I do want to have a variety of body positions, gestures, backgrounds, colors, lighting situations. I’m very aware when I’m going into like a new setting, which actually I have a shoot later today for this project. I look at everything that I already have to make sure that I don’t repeat myself because I don’t want my pictures to be kind of the same right. So, there’s a lot for me to think about and obviously the more I photograph the harder it gets haha!
Madeline: Right haha!
Stas: Not to fall into this pattern. But I can overthink it all I want. The thing is once I get into the situation into somebody’s home, everything goes out the window right. I mean this new environment, I react you know with what the light is doing, where’s the best place, what the furniture is like. So you just kind of start working on the spot intuitively and figure it out from
there. But somewhere in the back of my mind, yes. I’m thinking okay what have I done to this date let’s not, let’s try to do something different.
Madeline: Right absolutely.
Stas: Did that answer your question haha!
Madeline: Haha yes! You’re doing amazing we’re flying through more questions than I anticipated.
Stas: Haha!
Madeline: There’s only a few more I know you’re probably busy. And again I truly appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Stas: Of course my pleasure.
Madeline: Oh yes so I wanted to touch upon the Pace University Art Gallery. I know your work was recently featured in there. What do you hope that students will take away from viewing your work at the art gallery?
Stas: Uh, so this show is very complex. It’s a layered show. Of course it deals with Blasian March which was started by Rohan. And I even told Rohan that even if we were to do just a show about Blasian March period it would have been a very rich show because Blasian March brings so many different issues together. Black folks, asian, queer, trans, minority people. Everybody comes under this one umbrella that Rohan was able to create a space for everybody which was really amazing. It’s a truly intersectional community space. But on top of that at Pace, we kind of threw in this whole other element of time which is archival imagery from the 60’s 70’s civil rights era going with our contemporary work. So it really is a very layered show. And I think for students to see that there’s a lot to digest and a lot to think about. Repetition of history. You know clearly we can see that the same things that were happening back then are happening now. You know the same signage, the same gestures, the same street scenes. It’s kind of chilling to see that and to think about it. But when it comes specifically to my section which is mostly portraiture of course, again I kind of want students to connect with people who are looking directly back at them in my portraits. And just to think that yes these people were out there on the streets, they showed up, they did the work. And, now they are standing in their full glory in front of my lens and I was able to capture them. Yeah, like I said I think there’s a lot of material for students to digest in this show.
Madeline: Yeah it definitely is chilling. I mean that’s what a lot of this course is about as well. Comparing, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement to the Civil Rights movement. Comparing Covid to the epidemic back then as well. And side by side there’s just so many similarities it’s sad to think that we’ve come so far yet we haven’t at the same time.
Stas: Right.
Madeline: And I think your work definitely portrays that and gets it across to people that we need to do more, we need to be out on the streets, we need to be protesting. And it’s really important. I think your work will definitely make a difference in that aspect so I thank you on behalf of students my age, as a young woman who is dealing with a lot politically and coming to terms with everything that is happening throughout society now.
Stas: Yeah yeah—
Madeline: It’s really important that these things are highlighted and you’re definitely doing that. So I thank you on behalf of all of us.
Stas: I appreciate it so much thank you. Yeah right now of course we’re entering this very dark period. You know we progressed and now we’re regressing. It’s one step forward two steps back. We don’t know what’s going to happen. So it’s really important to see, to think about history and hopefully learn something. I know it seems like humanity isn’t capable of learning from the past. But, maybe if we keep staring at it haha!
Madeline: Seriously haha!
Stas: Haha yeah you know keep looking at it, and thinking about it, and analyzing it. You know hopefully it can make a difference. And um when I was going through the university archive there was so much incredible, powerful, and sad imagery of people getting arrested at the marches and protests. And, I chose not to pick any of those images for my wall just because I didn’t want to bring up any of the trauma, or highlight it. I focused more on uplifting moments and portraits. But I have a lot of the similar imagery of black trans women getting arrested brutally by police. Women getting arrested in general. Everybody, protestors, activists. And as I was going through their archives I was thinking oh my gosh, yeah it really is this cycle that just keeps repeating. And um, yeah it was very, it was very sad.
Madeline: Yeah definitely. But I do think capturing it and getting it in front of the public’s eyes is very important and it’s something that you can do and have been doing, and it will make a difference. I mean I’m certainly inspired hearing you speak about it and the importance behind it
is something that everyone should hear. Which is why I’m really excited that you decided to do this interview because I think people need to hear and know just how important it is.
Stas: Mhm—
Madeline: Yeah so, who are some of your biggest inspirations and influences in the art world?
Stas: Oh my gosh good question. Haha there’s so many! Of course when it comes to portraiture Diane Arbus especially street portraiture I mean you just can not, I don’t think anybody’s gotten close to what she was able to do in her work. And she is just an endless inspiration of mine. You know, I have her books and I study her photographs and I try to understand what makes them so good and so emotional. Um, let’s see who else comes to mind. Of course all of the names escape my head.
Madeline: Haha! No worries.
Stas: I think Deana Lawson out of contemporary photographers. You know I saw her show I think it was last year and it was just a really really powerful show. And her portraiture, she has a very unique style. And her portraits are very visceral and there’s a lot of emotion and a lot to think about there too. Um, Ryan McGinley, you know Ryan has photographed the protests alongside me. We became friends on the streets and his work is always amazing. He does amazing portrait photography as well. Let me think of one more I need to go look at the books I have on my coffee table haha!
Madeline: Haha! Honestly if you think of anything else you can always just email me. Stas: Yes I think I will email you a bunch of names.
Madeline: How did you initially meet Rohan by the way was it at one of the marches that he had organized?
Stas: Yes so initially we had met through the Stonewall Protests.
Madeline: Ah, okay.
Stas: That was that space that I was talking about earlier for black queer trans people. Madeline: Yes.
Stas: And, my first photographs of Rohan are from those actions. And it was somewhere in 2020, and then Rohan started doing Blasian March in the fall of that year. And they kind of brought over a lot of folks from the Stonewall Protests. A lot of that community kind of shifted. And yeah of course I had to be there and photograph Blasian March as well.
Madeline: Yeah absolutely! Okay I know you’re super busy so I won’t keep you too long, but what advice would you give to aspiring photographers or artists?
Stas: Um, as far as starting off in the field?
Madeline: Yeah recommendations, do’s or don’ts…
Stas: Yeah I think everyone has their own path you kind of just have to find your own way. I would say start with what you know, what you already know. Something that’s very close to you, maybe it’s your family, maybe it’s your group of friends. Something that you truly have a personal interest in because that will be reflected in your work. And that will make your work unique automatically because you’ll have your own perspective on it. But also it’s very important to find your community, find your people. And I know it takes time, especially for someone young who is just starting out. Um, but it’s really worth looking for it. You know work develops over time and it shifts. You know you’re interested in something today and you’re not interested in it tomorrow. But yeah I think my advice would be to start with something that is already close to you personally. If that makes sense.
Madeline: Yeah! I literally just whispered that makes sense haha.
Stas: Haha!
Madeline: Amazing. Yeah so last one I forgot to ask this earlier I just want to make sure I get all of this. I know I spoke about my favorite pieces of yours. Do you have a favorite piece and why?
Stas: It’s hard to pick out one single portrait or photograph because I think my work really functions as a body of work. As a mass. And it really has power when you start looking at this imagery one after another. Whether it’s outside or inside it doesn’t matter. Or even with both together. It sort of creates this archive of a queer trans experience. And I think, in my opinion, that’s kind of what the strength is in my work. Is, looking at it as a whole as a body of work. So, it’s really hard to pick out one person or one picture.
Madeline: Yeah I mean you touched upon a lot, I obviously have more questions but you answered them as you were speaking.
Stas: Yeah, oh no problem if you have something for me to elaborate on.
Madeline: Oh I think you did touch upon this but I was going to speak on the Revolution is Love: A Year of Black Trans Liberation the book that was published. I was just going to ask for you to tell me a little bit more about that experience and accomplishment.
Stas: So, this book as I mentioned it specifically focuses on the Stonewall Protests and that one year period where the community was meeting every Thursday. Um, and I think in the book there are close to twenty photographers because there was a full group of us who showed up every single week. And each one of us had roughly ten pictures in the book. So, I am so thrilled that this book exists out there in the world because this was such an amazing moment in time and truly a unique community coming together in rage, in joy, in spirit, in celebration. And, I’m glad it exists as a document and that people/students can see that it happened and maybe be inspired by it. Um, what this protest became known for was the spontaneous street balls. So in the middle of the march bikers would block an intersection where we were, west side highway let’s say for example, which happened a couple of times. And then the people would start dancing and everyone would get dressed up in ball gowns or whatever outfits inspired them. And it was truly an amazing experience, and sometimes we held traffic for like thirty minutes haha—
Madeline: Haha!
Stas: Haha. And it was a true expression of joy. Of queer joy, of trans joy. And um, community. And it became part of this protest, part of this resistance movement. And it’s documented in that book really well and each photographer has a quote and my quote is specifically about these street balls that were just nothing like what I have experienced before. It was truly amazing.
Madeline: Awesome thank you. Yeah I was also going to ask, has there been a specific protest or movement that you documented that stood out to you the most?
Stas: Um, I would say the Stonewall Protests for the reasons I’ve outlined and Blasian March of course. Blasian March is also very unique because it did bring so many different folks of different backgrounds and communities together and everybody who came to Blasian March they truly came because they wanted to be there. It also became a very close-knit family and a tight community. So, I would say those two are very very unique spaces. And you know Stonewall doesn’t exist any more, but Blasian March keeps on going which is really incredible.
Madeline: It is yeah, absolutely.
Stas: Yeah and Rohan also managed to take it to other cities and I think other countries maybe next year. Which is—
Madeline: Yeah well he came to speak to our class a few weeks ago and that was one of the questions I had asked. So what now? I said you already accomplished so much, is there anything that you’re looking to do in the future and he said definitely expansion. So I’m pleased to know that that might actually happen! I’m so happy.
Stas: Yeah for sure!
Madeline: Okay yeah I mean we touched upon pretty much everything I was going to ask. If you wanted to end off with any last message, any last thoughts, as well as if there is going to be work that you’ll be doing in the future that we should look out for. If there are ways that we can support you as an artist, anything like that feel free to mention.
Stas: Oh gosh! Um, so I think my plan for next year 2025 is to continue to take more photographs for my sanctuary project. There’s still I think right now I have about fifteen to eighteen photographs and if I do want to make a book with it I need probably about fifty. So there’s still a lot more work to be done, there’s still so many people I want to photograph who are doing amazing work for the queer community here in New York. I also want to start focusing more on the queer and trans elders which is something I haven’t done to this date because, for example, the average life expectancy of a trans person, trans woman, is thirty five years old. Which is, completely crazy to think about.
Madeline: Wow I didn’t know that.
Stas: So, people who made it past that age who are now in their fifties or sixties it really is a testament to their perseverance.
Madeline: Wow absolutely.
Stas: Yeah there’s so many people here in the New York community who are doing so much for the younger, queer trans generation. And so I absolutely want to be able to document their portraits, their environments, their faces to continue to build this archive of imagery for students like you to be able to refer to and look at and to understand and know that this community is out there and is doing the work.
Madeline: Absolutely. Yeah I mean I think your work is incredible, I think you are incredible, your message needs to be heard. I know I’m inspired and I think you have the power to inspire not only my generation but generations to come with your work. So I thank you for everything that you do, it really is encouraging to know that there are people out there who care to this extent and are this devoted to making pieces such as yours. The message is just so strong and it’s
something that I want to share with as many people as I can. So as you mentioned earlier I think definitely including some of your pieces in this would be great.
Stas: Yeah absolutely.
Madeline: It’s one thing hearing you speak about it but then being able to actually see the work that you’ve done it’s really moving. So, I think I’ve gotten everything I wanted and more out of this interview. I think the next steps would be to just send me some of your pieces that you feel the most strongly about that I can include in this. I’m going to work on transcribing everything you said and then once I send it to you and if you feel that oh I should’ve said this, or should’ve
said that, just let me know and I’ll add it right on here for you. I don’t want to take too much of your time and I really can’t thank you enough and I appreciate that you took the time.
Stas: Haha it’s no problem! Thank you so much for your kind words. It’s so sweet to hear that and I really appreciate it. Yeah, send me the transcript when you’re ready and I think I’ll send you some imagery that illustrates a lot of the points that we talked about. Definitely some stuff
from the Stonewall Protests and street balls that I’ve talked about, from Blasian March, portraits. Send me a list again of, you said you had a couple of favorites so send me that list too and I’d love to include those as well. And, I’ll think of more names of photographers that inspire me. My memory is just awful haha!
Madeline: No worries! It was kind of on the spot I wanted to make the questions as not on the spot as possible. Because you never know some interviews you kind of drift off into other topics and don’t even touch upon half of the questions. But I think your work is very important and I wanted to make sure I hit on every point that I had wanted to address. So it was definitely more structured. But take your time if there’s anything else that comes to mind just let me know and thank you! Good luck that you have everything going on for yourself. We all applaud you and I can’t wait to get back to the Pace Gallery now that I have a completely different outlook on these things. I would love to go back and look at your art again. With a different perspective.
Stas: Thank you thank you. And best of luck with your thesis. So you graduate in, uh, next year 2025?
Madeline: Yes May 2025.
Stas: Awesome. Well lovely meeting you have a good weekend!
Madeline: Thank you so much lovely meeting you too will speak soon!
Stas: Bye Bye.
Madeline: Bye!
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