Seth: Alright, well. Hi Vinnie, thanks for coming. I uh, I know you as my former advisor freshman year, and now director of residential housing, um but I heard you also went here as a student in 2007. Yeah Undergrad and masters. Us, so. Is that all accurate? Is that who you are?
Vinnie: Yup, I’m Vinnie Birkenmeyer, I use he/him/his pronouns, currently I’m the director of residential life for the Pleasantville campus–that’s like the official title, um and yea, I’m a double alum of Pace. Um 2011 is when I graduated with my bachelors, um and I was a history major, and then I graduated with my masters in public administration from the White Plains campus in 2014.
Seth: Cool, so um are you from around here? Are you from Westchester?
Vinnie: I grew up in Poughkeepsie, so about an hour north of here–well, outside of Poughkeepsie, um Hopewell Junction, so um yea it was about an hour, an hour and ten minutes from Pace.
Seth: So, it it makes sense I mean, uh like how did you find Pace? Were you looking for a school with a good history program or like…?
Vinnie: Yea um, no. That was not–I um knew I liked history and that’s kind of what brought me to the history major, but I wasn’t like necessarily at the time too concerned with exactly what I wanted to do after graduating. I wanted to study something I loved. So I wasn’t too narrowed like academic program, and I was the first sibling in my family to go away to college, so um I basically any time one of my friends went on a college tour I jumped in the car with them and their parents and um you know toured a bunch of schools, mainly in the northeast. But um I had definitely heard of Pace, but I came to campus and that’s what really–like the tour on campus is what really got me very excited. And then when I started hearing about like internship focuses, and really just, the vibe, (which is kind of how I make a lot of decisions in my life) um I just really felt connected to Pace. And that tour was in 2006, and I’ve been connected to Pace as a staff member or student since um, since then. So for fourteen years now um straight through. Um. And since I lived on campus as a student and as a staff member for the last ten years, um I’ve lived here on the Westchester campus that entire time, so Pace like has been a huge part of my life, my family’s life–they have more Pace clothes than I do I think, um so yea, being that close to where I grew up was important. Still, most of my friends and family are within an hour and hour and a half to either Jersey, the city, or upstate.
Seth: Yea we’re sort of right in the middle here. But if anyone knows Pace, clearly, it’s you. Uh, the vibe that got you here in 2006, did it change? Like what was it, is it different now? Or like…
Vinnie: Oh, good question. Um, when my friends come to visit me, they ask that too. So, um I think some things that have changed are like physically, the campus has changed pretty drastically. Um. We had a Briarcliff campus down the street during my entire student experience um and some of my staff experience, so it kind of broke the campus in half. Um. So, at the time, that’s what we knew, and some people really loved that–they like went to classes in Pleasantville, went to involvement in Pleasantville, and then they went quote-unquote, ‘home,’ to Briarcliff. Um. But, we’re also already a small campus and then half of the population lived you know a few miles down the road. So physically one of the things that has been amazing as a staff to see has been the new campus. So, combining to one campus here in Pleasantville, redoing most of our athletic facilities, building Elm and Alumni, changing some parts of the other communities– um that I think has been a game changer for campus. Um, you know. Obviously my main role being res life, Alumni hall was really a big game changer for us, because it allowed us to put all first-year students in one community, which I think you know not every school does and it just creates an awesome experience for the students. There’s stuff we plan through that, like the first-year interest groups, and leadership opportunities and programs, but also just organically, students being able to meet each other, see people they have classes with, see people they’re involved in clubs and organizations with. So um that, those have definitely been some things that have changed–and I think Pace has done some you know other cool programmatic things. There’s more programs–the majors that students pick, like top majors on the campus have changed a couple times, and some new facilities and labs and stuff have helped with that. Um. But I think something like “vibe-wise,” that hasn’t changed that I love is just like the students that are on um our campus–and I’m sure it’s similar for the city campus, but Pleasantville specifically, like um, I think we have a diverse student body in a number of different ways. So like, socio-economic status–one of the things I’m proudest of that Pace has always been great at is this idea of Opportunitas. So like students – We get a lot of recognition around students coming in at one socio-economic level, ten years out of graduation having moved up one to two levels. And obviously a lot of that is on the student and their family and their support systems, but I think Pace plays a big role in that. From grants and financial aid, to support systems, to providing a lot of care and support like things that I’m proud our team does in res life. Um and that I think has, I’ve always felt in my time at Pace that that like community feel has always been a part of this campus, so I’m glad that hasn’t changed. If that hadn’t been the case I probably wouldn’t have stayed working here, um but that has been something that has stayed the same, and I hope it stays the same. That we bring together folks from around the region, around the country, around the world, and this kind of like mix with Opportunitas is also this “go-getter” mentality. Like now being about ten years out of graduating–which seems uh, scary to think of, um, like I’m, I meet up with friends and talk to, and just hearing all of the awesome things they’re doing in their careers, family lives, their passions, just gets me so excited. And like we’re all doing things in very different areas, but we’re all like really doing awesome stuff, and so that just gets me excited. That – And I think that is that like “go-getter” mentality that Pace students have. Um so I love hearing that like–I’m involved in some alumni organizations through Pace and so folks that graduated fifty years ago or five years ago seem to have that common thread of like, you might be in the arts, or the humanities, or business, or computer science, or education, but you’re um you’re doing some really cool innovative stuff. So that’s something that’s remained that I really love.
Seth: Yea I definitely still feel that. Like I feel like I do different things than my friends but we’re all doing it in the same way–we’re all “going and getting it.” Um so like. So the campuses were split, you had to travel to get to Pleasantville. Do you feel like Pleasantville as an area has changed? Do you feel like we as students or at Pace are interacting with it less ‘cause we don’t have to travel with it? Or do you even think about that at all?
Vinnie: Yea, interesting. I haven’t thought of the part there’s less need to. So there was a shuttle service that basically–a lot of students had cars, but there was a shuttle service right, so a lot more students would be just naturally travelling so stopping at a store could’ve been easier for sure. Um.
Seth: I nowadays I just feel like I’m here–there’s no reason to leave most of the time.
Vinnie: Right. I do think that is the case. When I talk to folks at other schools, like colleagues at other schools, right I do not think Pleasantville considers themselves, and I don’t think that Pace necessarily considers itself a “college town.” Like I think Pace is one of the largest employers in Westchester, and you know if you count even just our residential students, we make up a big portion of who’s living in Pleasantville or Mount Pleasant at a time, but I don’t think as a student, me and my friends like interacted in huge ways with the community. There were, there’s definitely some community service things that happen each year that are really great, but I think like on a day to day, students might stop by their favorite deli, their favorite pizza place– um I see students, I walk into town a lot and I see some students sometimes, but I definitely don’t um get the vibe that our students are always fully connected to the Pleasantville community. And you know I don’t think that has changed drastically, it’s been kind of the case. I would say like me personally, I didn’t take advantage of the area that often like even just Westchester, like I stayed on campus. I lived in the Pleasantville campus um the four years that I was undergrad, and um I didn’t even really go to Briarcliff that often. Um. But going into Pleasantville–like I really love it now, like I have like I’ve met some really great folks and I love the vibe–Pleasantville’s changed a little and had a little more younger professionals around than I think they did seven or eight years ago, so I do enjoy the community now. Um but yeah I think other than some really intentional planned things from either student groups or the university, there’s not tons of like deep interactions between students and community members all the time.
Seth: I feel that. I feel like it’s these two separate worlds, which is fine. Um. But you mentioned you like the diversity of Pace, that Opportunitas you can sort of use Pace to change the direction of your life if you need. Do you feel like Pace is this diverse little bubble and Pleasantville isn’t? Like – That’s how I’ve experienced it here, do you share that? Or do you think that’s not really relevant or?
Vinnie: Yea I actually think about that a lot. So, I think first is like, thinking of me navigating that with the identities I have. So like, me saying that it’s diverse as like a white, gay, cisgender, male, like you know might be different than friends when I was here or colleagues. So I actually talk about it a lot when um we’re hiring new staff, ‘cause in residential life, you’re not just taking a job, you’re also moving to the college that you work at. Um. So I talk to our staff a lot that Pleasantville is you know a pretty white space. I think that there’s – When I at least describe Pleasantville, I describe it as upper-middle class, um white, and you know a little bit older. It’s not that easy to afford to live there as a young professional. Um and yeah. So those are like the things that come to mind and those aren’t necessarily the things that come to mind when I think of a Pace student. So yes, I think Pace as a campus is more diverse than Pleasantville. Um. And yea, I find myself talking about that with staff. I think with students it could play, it could definitely play a role in what we were just talking about, like the community interaction with Pace, I could definitely see that affecting it.
Seth: I know when I go into town I feel out of place. And I’m white, and it’s like, no one cares. But it still feels a little off. And we’re a diverse campus, but we’re also a PWI, so it might not feel diverse if you’re not white. Um do you feel like that – I know that this class is a pilot for the new anti-racist education program. Do you feel like push for things like that is something you’re seeing now, or do you feel like it was always happening? Like are we acting on this diversity more recently?
Vinnie: Yea I think that’s a great point that a lot of institutions whether higher ed., or just companies, or you know families or individuals are thinking about. Right, like is what I’m doing right now reactionary, of like things that have happened in the last year or two? Um. Is it things we’ve always done but maybe we’re more intentional about it? So, um, it’s, it’s hard to say. Like am I proud–I’m proud of a lot of the things we’re doing at Pace. I was part of the president announced two summers ago a presidential task force. So, a group of people put together very intentionally– faculty, students, staff, alumni, and trustees, to put together solid recommendations to pass to him and the board. Um you know, Which I think like as a student I didn’t really recognize the power of that always, but like you know that doesn’t happen with everything–that you have the board and the president’s ear directly. So um, I was a part of that group, and I think some really cool and great recommendations came out of that. Um We enacted in res life an um an anti-racism action plan that we’ve been working on the last couple of years, so I think some bigger and more intentional things have happened um specifically around anti-racism I’d say. Um you know I do think things were happening before the last two years–I do think the like, diversity of our student population–I do think there’s been some you know great programs. I think student affinity groups have been some our most powerful and prominent groups on campus you know for a long time. So there’s definitely been things that I’m proud of, but you know I’m a believer in one of my like tenants of inclusion work and equity work is that you have to operationalize it. So having a great speaker come in, and having a great training session o –those things are important, but we have to really ingrain into the culture things like the anti-racism um curriculum that you mentioned, or operationalizing and doing trainings for everyone that’s gonna be on a hiring committee about bias, and having um traditional programs that happen every single year, or mandating trainings for certain groups. So those are the things that do stand out to me as more poignant, and I think that’s what changes a culture or keeps a culture if you already feel like you’re an inclusive space. So yes I think it’s a mix of both–I’ve been proud of things that have happened over the years, um you know and you know I also think we’ve put some extra emphasis in in the last couple years. I think I’ve definitely heard from students, faculty, staff, that–and I’ve felt this way at time too–that like, you know you don’t wanna feel like you’re reacting to specific you know horrific things that happen in the country, world, state, area, but I also think it’s important to capitalize on that when possible and get folks that maybe weren’t talking about equity or inclusion before to now talk about it. So um so yea, I hope that answered you.
Seth: Yea, I like that perspective you know of opportunity to talk about is a good way to talk about it, and is um I think that leads into the conversation of DJ Henry really well, because that’s something that’s come up a lot being here. Before this conversation of BLM was so big in the country, we were talking about the tragedy with DJ Henry, because it was a part of the community. So, you–what year was that? Was that 2011?
Vinnie: Um so it was the 2010–October 17th, 2010, is when DJ was murdered–so it was the 2010/2011 like academic year.
Seth: Right, so it was your senior year of undergrad. Um so. Did you know DJ Henry when you were a student?
Vinnie: So I didn’t know DJ personally like we’re hanging out and doing study groups together, um small campus like I knew of DJ, you know I knew of like his friend group, see each other here and there, say hi–that was like our individual relationship. Um I got to know DJ more after his death, um primarily because that year I was uh president of the student government, so I um you know led or played a role in a lot of our memorials, and talking with his family, talking with his friends, uh planning things, um talking with faculty and staff, those type of pieces. So most of me getting to know DJ unfortunately happened from stories from others, um and hearing people talk about um how amazing he was um after, after his death.
Seth: Right, so um what exactly did you do? You said memorials, uh talking with family, like what was your role? Like – Did this happen and you were called upon? How did you get involved with this aftermath?
Vinnie: Yea um so the night that DJ was killed was homecoming night, so um some of my friends were in town where DJ was, some of my friends were on campus–I was on campus. So my like first kind of interaction with it was seeing my friends come back after they had just–some, right in front of them–experienced um DJ’s death. Um. And then kind of my role, other than like supporting my friends in that moment, kind of officially started the next morning, probably like five, six a.m. I think in any crisis and any tragedy it takes a while to know exactly what happened–right so you’re hearing like tidbits. So the dean for students at the time called me and she had been notified hours before obviously and was working with the family, the hospital. Each school has kind of like policies and protocols. That – Obviously, it’s the worst possible thing that could happen on a college campus, but you have to have some policies and protocols. Right. So she was working with the football team, because they were most closely affected from DJ’s death, DJ’s close friends, family. So she called me and some other folks um to start planning a vigil for that day. So there’s – For a number of reasons, right, like memorializing, and talking about DJ, and also giving a chance for folks that are grieving to come together. Not not everyone wants to grieve in community, but you know there’s lots of you know folks and reasons why that is helpful, so um, that’s where, I would say like the first piece was, like the day after DJ was killed, bringing the community together for a vigil that night. Um. So, you know that was just a like getting you know as many folks together as possible, working with the counseling center, working with athletics, the dean for students office. You know student government – It’s typical for student government to be brought into any like, big things or decisions on campus–it’s not usually something like a tragedy, but– um so that’s why. I wasn’t the only student part of that, but like the kind of like official representative as the person um that was elected into that role. And then of course DJ’s friends played a big role in that also, they were very you know –they were in a different place with their grief, right they lost a close friend, and while and some of them were harmed during this too. Whereas for me and some other folks that were like in helping out because we were student leaders, while we were upset, – upset, mad, sad, grieving, it was a different level. So I saw it as my role–like I need, I need to be doing something right now, I need to be helping in whatever way I can. And everyone played a role, like the counseling department talking to folks who were counseling, the dean for students office coordinating with athletics and DJ’s family. And you know I saw it as my role to share the like feelings that students were having with faculty and staff if they didn’t know. To make – If folks are planning things that they think are really great ideas, saying like, ‘ooh I don’t if that’s really how students wanna grieve,’ you know, that type of stuff. So that so that was the first thing, and then from there on–I mean to be honest a lot of parts of that year, immediately after throughout were very much a blur. Like there were times where you’re grieving intensely, there were times you walk around campus and everyone’s face was almost catatonic and like not wanting to talk, then there were times where people wanted to celebrate because a lot of folks in college aren’t thinking about like mortality and thinking about life ending so abruptly. And then someone who was so well loved– and not that like even if someone wasn’t well loved that their life should be ended like that but–so I think there were times that people wanted to celebrate, you know So it’s–it was a very odd year. So like remembering the exact timeline is difficult, but after that initial vigil there were moments of other memorial-type vigil conversations, mixed in with advocacy and like social justice conversations, mixed in with anger, and like you know specific actions that I think you know still were social justice and advocacy, but more so out of being upset, mad, pissed, with decisions that were made from the either district attorneys, or grand juries, or police association. So um it was kind of a mix of all of that, that year. We did some other memorial pieces within that year to dedicate yearbooks to DJ, have his family come back, um there were some specific things athletics did with the team um because of football being a huge part of DJ’s life. Um.. So yea, that was kind of the first year. And then we did um a large number of fundraisers to raise money for the clock that’s over at the gym, um we organized a letter-writing campaign when the Pleasantville police um association named the officer who killed DJ officer of the year. Um. We wrote letters to the governor and the county executive condemning that. Um. We got resolutions passed by the faculty counsel, staff counsel, and student government condemning that action, so, so those are some of the things that we did that year, like in that calendar year.
Seth: Yea um and you’re sort of like thrown into this role with the other people–um what is like, what is your perception of what the campus is like for someone else? Like someone who wasn’t close with this person, isn’t in a leadership role–what were things like? Do you have an idea of what it was?
Vinnie: Yea, I think that is a–a good question. I think it’s–and I honestly think it’s hard to in hindsight imagine this–but there were folks, students, not just–I think was easier at the time to think of just faculty and staff–but you know there were students that even though they were sad DJ was no longer with us, still felt like they didn’t know all the facts. Right, I think there were folks that still–folks had different levels of trust with police. Different levels of trust with law enforcement in general. Different levels of trust with the justice system.
Seth: So what’s your level of trust with that? When you hear that this happens, what are your thoughts about that?
Vinnie: Yea so – yea so I pretty personally from the beginning–I think mainly because of having friends that were directly there, like um you know, I think that was for me a break in a lot of that trust. Um I think up until that point, I grew up in a generation that for a number of reasons really revered all of those groups I just mentioned–law enforcement, police, um justice systems. Right, and I think especially as a white man growing up in a rural/suburban area it was easy for me to trust that those systems were always there to support and protect me. Um I think for other folks that I was friends with it wasn’t the first time that they, this distrust was sowed, so I remember thinking that was something I had to think about a lot. Like I’m in these meetings, I’m in these vigils, I’m organizing these um actions, and my personal feeling was like, this is disgusting–there was so no justice involved in this, the police officer was 100% wrong. And those are all things I have believed since that night and believe to this day, and has you know shaped a big portion of my adult life. Um There were students on our campus though–I wouldn’t say there were students saying like, um, you know there weren’t necessarily like rallies saying support the police officer.
Seth: Yea there wasn’t really a movement for that at the time.
Vinnie: Right. Right, but there were folks saying, damn, this is a tragedy, but they didn’t necessarily see it as part of a bigger issue with law enforcement, or a bigger issue with black men being you know targeted by police. So I think it was interesting navigating that, ‘cause like, you know, opening up folks eyes versus balancing everyone’s opinions–you know that was something we talked about a lot. You know – So I think that was something. You know, and as a twenty-one year old, that being the first time like thinking of that, now I think I’d feel more comfortable to be like, ok that is, that is your point of view, but I you know, but your point of view is not recognizing that there are folks on this campus who have much higher chance of losing their life for you know making a mistake, doing something that is seen by law enforcement as dangerous–
Seth: Or just existing,
Vinnie: Right, existing. So, so I thinkum I think that’s probably why–you know some of those things and conversations are the reasons why um you know being an ally has become important to me, social justice has become important to me, policy, legislation and politics have become important to me. Um. Because recognizing how, in my opinion, different, different folks–because of the way they look, interact with this society.
Seth: Yea, you didn’t grow up afraid of the police, whereas other people do, regardless of ‘politics,’ if you wanna call it that. Um. And that–me personally, that makes me think about if the campus were in that place right now. Um. Because I feel like it would be really tense. I feel like because there’s a movement for the police in recent years in reaction to black lives matter, that there would be, the people who thought it was a tragedy, thought it was a tragedy but didn’t think it was systemic might have more to say about that. Do you feel like there would be more tension nowadays?
Vinnie: Yes–I think short answer, yes. Um. You know, I think long answer, it’s hard for me to say that now as a like–you know I was a student and ten years younger then, and now like am I, is it easy to say that because I’m like old and jaded? And as my job, say two groups come and both are planning like a peaceful protest, or a rally–things that are allowed by the university, right. I would you know have to advise and help both of those folks, say, fill out the paperwork for that. Right, you know um. So I think like yes, I think there would be more tension. I didn’t get the feel when I was a student–even though not everyone was on the same exact page, there wasn’t, tension. At least from my view, right. It could’ve been the people I was around or my position or whatever, but there wasn’t tension. It was everyone, was you know, shocked, mortified, you know even disgusted that DJ was no longer with us. There were some folks that felt it was a one-time thing, some folks understood this was systemic, but either way, the vast majority of campus had knew that what happened was wrong. So yes, I do think there would you know be more tension, but also I think it’s easier for that tension, or for folks to say that, when it’s not in their face and someone that’s a part of their community.
Seth: Right, yea, I do think that is brings up the idea of like, politics versus just, life. Like – This is someone that you lost regardless of how it happened. Um. And I think the recent BLM movement, like post George Floyd, sort of um was an attempt to connect the politics to these things. Because I think the people reacting to it on campus are either people like you said, who are like, this is a tragedy but it’s not systemic, or people who are like, this happens, I can’t believe it happened here, but like this is, this is what happens. And then there’s people like you, who are like, oh my god, this is what happens, and it sort of is like a wake-up call. And I feel like this past movement–the like 2020 summer, was that wake-up call for a lot of people. Um. Did you feel that? Did you experience that being here still? I know it wasn’t during school, but you were still a part of the Pace community.
Vinnie: Yea, definitely. And I think I saw that in like a number of communities I’m in. I think I saw that in Pace community, I think saw that with family, I saw that with some friends, I saw that in the queer community that had to have like some reckoning of what’s the queer experience if you’re a middle class white gay man versus you know a trans black woman, so I think a lot of conversations around like how do identities intersect with each other and with society, law, politics. Um yea I definitely saw that in you know some marches, and actions, and movements I was a part of in Westchester and in the city um immediately after George Floyd. Like you know. Even as someone as who I felt had been committed to anti-racism work and inclusion work, um you know those were some of the first times I had been in events that size. Like and you know a lot of my in-person actions before that were about someone that was more directly connected to me in DJ, as opposed to marching, fighting for, advocating for um the group, the whole, the community etc. So um you know um. My friend–as we were marching, was interviewed by CNN and she brought up DJ. We were marching with signs about DJ said, “DJ Henry Say His Name.” Um and CNN came up to us and said like, why are you marching? And she was my close friend that was there the night that um DJ was shot and saw it all happen in front of her face. Um and you know. And she shared I think very poignantly–like very quickly because we were marching while it was happening, but um DJ’s life. That DJ was a college student in Pleasantville, New York that was shot and murdered by a police officer over ten years ago, and you know this didn’t start – an we are marching for George Floyd and Breonna Taylor today, but we’re marching for hundreds and thousands of other unarmed black folks that are killed by um law enforcement. And um at the end he asked what her name was, and um she said, “Jane Doe,” and it went kind of viral. And when we talked about it afterwards, you know, because it’s still–right she’s sharing that poignantly and specifically, she’s sharing it as a black woman, she’s sharing it as one of the groups in America that you know time and time again receive less and less justice than other folks. So um you know, I think even when you know, ten years later, five years later, twenty years later, still having to consider your own like personal safety, or your professional advancement, your–whatever comes to mind, like, friends, family members, folks close to me having to think about that every day I think is just a kind of constant reminder of the work that I need to do, that others need to do, to do what we can to make that a little better.
Seth: And I think a lot of uh of black people live like this–knowing someone in their community who’s been affected by police like this, because it’s so common. And so I feel like maybe DJ was a wakeup call for the white people on this campus to also live with that, like you just explained.
Vinnie: Yea and I think that’s why it’s been so important any time the community talks about DJ, or what or has standing in person memorials like the clock that was built outside–you know I think any chance where we can be reminded that this is, tha DJ is a part of our community, A, because we should be remembering DJ as an individual human, and B, because remembering that this is part of a larger conversation that we need to, every community should be a part of–we really specifically should be a part of. Especially if we’re going to be proud of–like I think we are, of having a diverse community, um we need to have some, these conversations. And you know, I think there’s been–to one of your questions earlier too–I you know, I hear people say Pace has just started talking about DJ or has talked about DJ more in the last few years. Um you know, and similar to when we’re talking about general inclusion work, I think yes, there have been some amazing things, and I’m so, I can’t count the amount of times I’ve cried that like specifically student-led things have happened in DJ’s name over the last few years. You know I do think it’s important to remember that things happened before the last three years also. Um I know personally I’ve hosted a memorial every year since DJ died, and there were times that it were, it was huge–the year after, two years after, three years after, and then I remember the first year when you know students no longer knew DJ individually, so it was like some groups were excited about keeping DJ’s memory alive, um but right there were years where it was me and three other people. So what I love–which has happened in the last few years, is that some of those things have been institutionalized. Right so. When I was planning these memorials, it was really just me as an individual, um using my platform to either make a flier, email people, or just word of mouth say, hey, I’m going over around seven o’clock on this day–some years it was noon, some years it was one. Um you know. So I do think putting things like DJ’s story and legacy into tours, or into University 101, or into anti-racism curriculum–things like that, I’ve been very proud of the last few years um. But I think also remembering that some student groups, some faculty and some staff–maybe not everyone, but some, have done some amazing things before then. BSU hosted a, BSU, student affairs, a couple groups, the five-year anniversary of DJ’s death planned a huge memorial that DJ’s family came back for. The yearbook club and campus engagement–two years after DJ was killed, um dedicated the yearbook to him and his family came back. So there have been some things. The clock that was um dedicated to DJ–students, student government led the fundraising, but we didn’t meet nearly as much as it cost to build a clock, who knew how much it cost, so the current president of Pace at the time and the board of trustees–um from, from what I remember, I don’t remember exact numbers, but, basically matched everything we raised and paid for it, paid for the rest of it. So I do think things happened to keep DJ’s memory alive for a very long time. Um I think in the last two years though, more has happened to ingrain it. Um. So someone could come tomorrow and have never heard DJ’s story, and if they’re a part of the Pace community–they come on a tour, they walk into the gym, they walk into Kessel now with the amazing mural, um they have a chance to stop and think.
Seth: And you see the flags everywhere.
Vinnie: Exactly.
Seth: Um. So, I, Ithink that’s really important, the visibility of it. And I know that’s what happened to me. There was no moment where someone was like, hey have you heard of this story, it was sort of just like, I realized it existed and I on my own was like, what actually happened? Um. And I think people can ignore it too, people can be like, ah something happened, and sort of not care. But for me personally I know DJ Henry as, like I’ve watched to news documentaries about him, and then that picture that’s in Kessel like that was painted of him, I know him as that, and I know him as number twelve on this flag, but I don’t know him as a person because of uh because of how long it’s been. So I’m wondering if you feel like it’s important to separate the symbol of DJ Henry from the person. Is it damaging for him to be number twelve on the flag from the football team, or is it a good way to keep his legacy alive?
Vinnie: Interesting. Yea, I have not thought of that before, um, I think the first things that come to mind are that some of those things are symbols, right? Like I think um you know the DJ Henry Dream Fund, which was started by DJ’s family– like no one, and as a very close family, not everyone has that relationship with their family, but they are a very close family–
Seth: Do you wanna explain what the DJ Henry Dream Fund is?
Vinnie: Yea, so I think that speaks to some of the symbol pieces like the clock, the jerseys, the number twelve, so, um sports was very important to DJ, so um specifically football. He actually started at Iona College; a college close to here, and they cancelled their football program and him and a few other um guys came and played for Pace. Um. So they were kind of like a group. Um. And sports, you know from what the Henrys describe, was always a huge part of DJ’s character and identity. Um.. He also was murdered the night of a homecoming game that he played in, right. So, um you know I think seeing – so um the Henrys set up a non-profit organization that collects money and then gives back to students, children, um based off like sports. So it might sponsor someone to go into a sports camp–some of the things that get really expensive. So like a sports camp, equipment for sports, um etc. So basically scholarships and grants to keep that memory alive in DJ’s name. And um some of the things that came up from DJ’s friends and teammates afterwards were stories that even the Henrys hadn’t heard of before, but DJ would you know he would find out that someone on the team couldn’t afford the latest gloves, or the latest cleats, or the latest you know whatever you know equipment they needed, and would give them his gloves, and say like, oh I had two, or like, oh I accidentally had an extra pair, oh these didn’t fit me, you know like you would hear story after story of um DJ going out of his way to help folks, specifically on his football team um and his close friends. Without doing it in a way that was like you know pompous condescending, right which can happen you know. Um. And so once they heard some of those stories, um that, from what I’ve heard them say, is what pushed them to start the Dream Fund, which has you know raised a lot of money over the years to um to be able to support students going into some of those sports related pieces. So, to the symbolism question, I think that’s related to it because you know while the pieces around a clock outside the gym, or a mural that very you know I think directly addresses sports, athletics, football, you know I don’t think those things were symbols to DJ, they were truly part of his identity. So, um so yea. But I think in the sense of like DJ as a symbol of part of some of – systemic racism, or some of these larger conversations folks are having, I think, I don’t know, I think it’s–I think those conversations need to happen, I think we have to do both of those things; keep DJ as an individual, his humanity alive, so that you know you aren’t–you know I think someone in the Pace community shouldn’t just say you know, I am DJ Henry. You should know a little bit about who DJ was, ideally. Um. At the same time, I also think–I personally think DJ’s death is related to systemic racism. Issues in the justice system, issues in um you know policing, so um so I think yes, in that regard, the symbol of his death–of his life, is a part of a bigger conversation. And if that gets folks you know excited, or knowledgeable to advocate to you know fight injustice, I think that’s a good thing.
Seth: Yea, I think that’s a good answer. I think we see that in other places with other people that are made into symbols, and as long as you honor the person, it’s it’s usually helpful as far as I’ve seen it.
Vinnie: Yea. And sometimes symbols are important. Sometimes you know – you know. In lots of these cases, we’re talking about life and death, right? So whether its symbol, a law changing, a protest, or a you know donation you make, if any of that or all of that added together saves one person’s life, like that made a difference.
Seth: And I think it’s really um, like the personal aspect like you say is really important. Say I was someone who didn’t think it was because of systemic racism or something. It’s much easier for me to tell you that about George Floyd or something, and say like whatever you know narrative is going around that on why it’s not that or not a problem, but it’s much harder for me to sit here and say, this person you knew was not a part of this thing. And like is not as sad as you think it is or something. Um. So I think that puts it into perspective in my classes, when we have to talk about this topic–being systemic racism, we can talk about people who have been murdered in the past, and we do. Like, It’s a history class, we talk about Emmett Till, it’s 2020, we talk about George Floyd. But we also talk about DJ Henry, and it’s so much more personal. That ut carries this power even though we didn’t know him. And I think that’s important. And it makes me wonder, do you, after all this work you’ve done and seen being done, do you feel like DJ is honored here?
Vinnie: Um, yes. I do think–I think like, like I was saying a little bit ago, I think there’s been waves, and I hope that some of these actions that have been institutionalized more so in the last couple years, um––
Seth: Like what? What’s been institutionalized?
Vinnie: Like the anti-racism action plans that departments have done, or um the task force on diversity, equity, and inclusion, or adding DJ into the into Kessel with the mural, or University 101 and tours. I think those type of things mean that, you know, if I leave tomorrow from res life, res life has in our residential curriculum now bulletin boards and programs that thank about, and fundraisers that are directly tied to DJ. So, by institutionalized I mean, if my entire department left tomorrow and all new professional staff were here, um DJ’s memory would still be alive, even though none of them knew DJ. Um. So that’s were–in the past before that, I might’ve each year hosted that memorial, or I personally might have you know emailed the RA’s saying, hey here is DJ Henry’s story, but now as a department, it is part of our–you know what we do as a job, just like it’s part of a tour in the Welcome Center. Right like. There’s more chance of I think DJ’s legacy not going in waves, it’s more of a chance of DJ’s legacy being a full fixture of the community. So, um so yes, and I think remembering that honoring DJ happens in a number of ways, I think um we need to have memorials and vigils, I think we need to have things specifically for DJ like that. Um I think also Social Justice Week– DJ, this was our second annual DJ Henry Social Justice week, I think that’s a good example, some of those events are watching the 48 Hours interview with the Henry family and discussing it, and others are you know, environmental injustice, right? Not directly related to DJ or his story, um or his life or death, but in the vein of social justice. Right so I think we can talk about DJ specifically, but also honor him by you know, including, creating inclusive practices, pushing for equity, pushing for diversity, so yea. I think we are honoring DJ. I hope, I hope other folks feel that way, I’m sure there are folks that think we could do more, um and I think what I’d say is like, let’s do more. If you have an idea for–I worked with a group of students who had an idea for a mural about DJ, and it took a while, right? Like anywhere, you want something beautifully done, you want it done right, it takes a while. There’s figuring out money, there’s figuring out logistics, there’s figuring out where something goes, but they worked at it for a year, because they thought, the clock is cool, it’s been ten years, we want something new. Or they think we want something more like, you know when you look at it, it is about DJ Henry. Um. And that is what they think Pace could’ve done more, so they worked towards it. There were faculty that said, there are some great classes on the campus that might bring up DJ, or might um talk about systemic racism, but we think that there needs to be you know some anti-racism written into the curriculum–which is the expectations of the university faculty. So. And they worked on that, for a long time and got it going. So, I think, I think yes, I’m sure there are other ways that we could honor DJ. Um. Last summer a group of us–which ranged from students and RA’s, to me and other staff members, up to the dean, you know, up to like high-level administrators of the university, marched at a local protest that was planned by sixteen year old high school students who were barely alive when DJ was. And you know I think things like that send a message too, like faculty, students and staff coming together. So I think there’s lots of ways to honor DJ. I think one thing I’d hope that we keep in mind is continuing to honor him in ways that align with what his closest friends and family think are important. So if we left say athletics or sports out of DJ’s story here, that wouldn’t be doing DJ justice, because his family, friends, and folks that knew DJ knew that that’s a huge part of his life. Right so. So I think it’s important to continue to keep that in mind when honoring him. But yea I think we can continue to think of new ways to honor DJ, or ways that align more with what students will connect with so.
Seth: Yea, I think that’s a respectful way to do things. And it just like wrapping up a little bit, but it just brings me back to now, where we’re living through this summer–where I have more of a connection to my community at home than DJ, personally, um things slowed down a lot, obviously. Do you think that that’s gonna happen with DJ? It’s the ten-year anniversary, do you think that we’re gonna need to do more to keep momentum going? Where do you see the future of it? Or is it just an extension of everything you just explained?
Vinnie: Yea I think that’s a great point. I talk about this with my friends a lot, because I’m in a unique place that I live and work on a college campus. Right, so I’m talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion most days. Even if it wasn’t something I was passionate about, like, as part of my job, that would be you know conversations I’m having a lot. And so don’t really notice–I think things like marches, protests have winded down outside of Pace, um so I think it’s a little harder for me to tell like the general community. I think where we’re at right now with DJ is the kind of court battles. I think like that will determine what happens. So. It was announced a little while ago that um DJ’s death and um another and another death of an unarmed black man in Westchester, those cases were being reopened, which was very exciting news that we had been advocating for for a very long time. So I think depending on what happens with that will be a big part of like, where momentum is sitting and shifting, um that justice piece for DJ specifically. Um But I, I do think some of those things we just talked about with the like, institutionalizing of DJ here at Pace, um I do think that will help, so that it’s not a momentum type conversation. Um I’m sure lots of history classes could point out twenty other times where there’s been momentum in civil rights movements and then something happens, right, the economy goes up, so people think that there are no problems, or–
Seth: A pandemic, and we’re all inside.
Vinnie: A pandemic happens, right, and then I think you know leading to conversations of like, the pandemic sucked for everyone, but it disproportionately affected black folks, or people in the other ‘blank,’ communities or identities. So yea I think a lot has been done in the last year and a half, two years, to institutionalize some of things so that it doesn’t become a momentum um piece, um but it’s hard to tell. I think if we look back in five years um and you know, we haven’t assessed the new curriculum, and it no longer is you know is innovative, or it no longer reaches students the way it did–you know, I think it’ll take time to make some of these things great, but also recognizing that you know maybe right now we’re doing some in person monument things, and maybe there’s parts of the website or digital means that we could talk about DJ more, right. So I think like–I hope the momentum doesn’t change, but I do hope we’re always thinking about like what is a new way to make sure DJ continues to be a part of our campus and culture. And the Henry family, and just, more broadly, injustice, anti-racism, you know like how do we make sure that those conversations are continuing to happen even if the news isn’t covering it, and even if it’s twenty years since Pace is directly impacted. Um so, so, um I hope, and I think that the momentum will continue, but I think that only will happen if we stay on top of it, as faculty, as staff, as students, as alum, um you know it, I think we have to remember like, we are Pace. If you’re connected to Pace and you’re saying Pace is not doing anything for DJ, let’s talk about how we can come together and do more. Um so. So I hope that stays with folks.
Seth: Yea, I think that’s really admirable. And the institutionalizing of it is super important. Yeah I like that–the emphasis on that, it’ll keep it moving forward. And I think you know everyone has a different reason to be involved, whether it feels like it’s an issue at home for you, or you were at Pace, or you feel like it’s what Pace is about. Whatever it may be, I feel like everyone can–it speaks to everyone somehow, and so I think keeping it moving forward is a really good thing.
Vinnie: Yea, for sure. And I think even like things like this, right, like in a class. So. In the last week, you know me just knowing that there are two different you know classes specifically focusing on parts– you know DJ is part of that class curriculum. Like I think that’s awesome, and that becomes more important as we can further and further away from the dates that DJ was here, the date that DJ died, um because it’s infusing that into the Pace culture. I mean I applaud you doing this project, and your professor, and your class, and um you know I don’t think it’s easy hearing you know tragedy, hearing injustice, but I think if we don’t document these things and we don’t document the good and the bad, um that’s a bigger injustice.
Seth: The story needs to be told, and I’m glad that I caught you, someone who’s in the position to tell it, so I really appreciate that. Um. Any final thoughts?
Vinnie: Um, no, I mean, thank you. I think this is–I find myself every time like writing a speech for an event, or just thinking about DJ or talking, every time I think of something different, or you know it catches me at a different time or–but it always does just bring me back to, to that time. Even though it was eleven or so years ago now, so while it’s tough each time, and I don’t think I’ve ever not teared up at some movement of a conversation about DJ, um we need to have those conversations and get back to those tough moments to, to uh grow and hopefully prevent it from happening again, and I definitely appreciate it.
Recent Comments